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Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges

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Old August 10th, 2008, 16:43   #121
Proteus
 
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Originally Posted by thePiRaTE!! View Post
Honestly, our biggest obstacle is legal distribution. If we didn't need to rely on licenses that don't account for getting guns to players after importation, all the troubles would be solved.
Once we have a goal and we put the money on the table people will take us seriously.

If we are going to get our shit together and be organized we must have a focal point that the majority of airsofters can identify as a need that they want.


Legal distribution is a valid concern.

Any ideas on how you would like it changed from the way is now?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 16:45   #122
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Refer to my previous post. Gun groups don't take our toys guns seriously enough to give a shit.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 17:35   #123
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Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
Legal distribution is a valid concern.
Are you intentionally trying to make an understatement? O_o''

Are you a notable member of CSSA, Proteus? Have you closely reviewed past threads on the subject of airsoft legalization? Because it sounds like you've got no idea what they can do for us and what we would need from them.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 17:49   #124
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Have you noticed that the responses here are more concerned with the impossibility and improbability of any change occuring?

Only one person has voiced ONE concern over what he would like changed.

Everyone else has a contrary excuse why it can't be done.

Are you also aware that excuses are a justification for giving up or giving in?

:banghead:
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Old August 10th, 2008, 17:56   #125
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I didn't say it couldn't be done, so evidentally your everybody is a bit broad.

We asked you what the CSSA can do for us, and your answer is to ask us what we want done. That's not really an answer. thePirate did a good job explaining our situation, if you can't gather what we need done from that, maybe you're getting ahead of yourself.

You need to learn to distinguish between excuses and legitimate criticisms of your idea.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 18:48   #126
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I would believe that we have people age verified on here who attempt to associate themselves with a judicial outlook from which we can respectfully justify and socially legitimize the self regulating measures of use in the posession of our AEG equipment(s).

My personal suggestion would abdicate that users of this forum enact with collective confidence an easily identified and assessable public partition of this website which could account of an organized information registry of the Airsoft Canada users and associates, easily accessible by provincial and federal bodies. This account should respectfully acknowledge our public attempt to associate a measure of control in the registered Airsoft community adhering to responsibly-safe conductual procedures and accountancy of Airsoft Sport AEG products in Canada.

Perhaps there should be a public information search on the website, some kinda graph systemed search access/client profile which shows amongst others, who verified who in what region, date, a geographical map linked to each territorial site/business grounds designated as where each user(s) - associate(s) of the Airsoft Canada forum are registered and/or accounted for in the participation of the sport (club-business addresses - sponsors). I'm sure anyone who has sold AEG on this site as a sport client exchange has kept their online invoices and bank payments for personal record and auditing, thus I feel that if you were ever asked to provide the product no.(s) of your equipment for information system cataloging purposes, that is so your registered status in the combat sport could be acknowledged respectful both provincial and federal, and is consistent of applicable information necessary for an effective model of online registry.

Moreover, in the suspicion that possession of your equipment was relevant as evidence used in part of a criminal infraction (ie: brandishing or using the AEG in a location which could be used to threaten and/or any other legally relevant worry, which could define the equipment as a firearm a/o replica firearm an its applicable term in its context to its action/use in question). An online equipment registry and user information log might help to elevate a remedy.

My point is if you are really worried that you could be at risk, create yourself a competent means of demonstrating responsible action both personally and collectively to remedy any relevant inquires about the AEG products you posses, and your personal effort to project responsible Airsoft conduct and sport ethics in your identification as a airsoft participant.

Last edited by RedSteel666; August 10th, 2008 at 18:52.. Reason: grammatical reflection.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 18:54   #127
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Last I checked we didnt even have a national club to join in the first place... you know, dues, elected officials... etc. Even the local "groups" are just a bunch of guys with no national association. We have no collective FPS limits, rules or guidelines.

I think if we're to be taken seriously, we're going to have to start acting seriously.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 19:11   #128
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I'm pretty skeptical about the idea that transparency will project promote acceptance. While we shouldn't hide by any means, the sole precedent for such transparency through tracking players hasn't been good. The VCRA was followed by UKARA's database for airsoft players, to enable retailers to sell to players as opposed to just anybody. Last time I checked, there were serious doubts about retailers adhering to the guidelines and the willingness of UKARA to act against said retailers, since they carried no real legal weight.

Not to mention that ASC is suppose to be the tip of the iceberg for airsofting in Canada. I don't think a very incomplete picture of airsofters and their replicas is going to impress anyone in government anymore than age verification already has. In addition, we're not really the ones that led to the current restrictions on replica firearms. The concern is over their use in robberies and the like. We're already the good boys, but we're getting punished in association. No matter how good we are, if the bad boys are bad enough, it really doesn't matter what we do.

Finally, while possession isn't technically illegal, the transfer of replica firearm involves a number of legal issue. The open release of that information, no matter how non-representative it is of Canada as a whole, should be carefully considered.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 21:07   #129
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self awareness of the issues and the means of staying focus on meaningful resolutions should be facilitating the direction this thread takes beyond the initial collection of a wide range of collective concerns. As both yours point express to me, indeed, a collection of communities on this forum has acted independently based on their own abilities to institute measures necessary to safety concerns legally to the best of addressing their own abilities. My guess is that any productive change should be focused to a dialysis with consideration to the AC's web administrators and their respective concerns and ability.

It good to see people aren't ready to jump to conclusion on an outcome before considering simple reflection and empathetic consideration.

Last edited by RedSteel666; August 10th, 2008 at 21:11..
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Old August 11th, 2008, 08:34   #130
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Ok, I'll contact them.

So .... they will gain an increase in revenues and membership.

For you to become a member what do you want from them?

To part with $45 what is important to you?
Sorry to take so long to respond I was away from my computer for a couple of days:

1) A clearly articulated policy by the CSSA, in writing, that showed that they both clearly understood our issues as airsofters and had a realistic idea of how to make airsoft more accessible in Canada.

2) A change to their constitution that would ensure airsofters would be represented on their governing bodies to a certain proportion, not just based on straight numbers. IE a certain number of ASers would be required on their Board of however they are governed.

3) Members of the CSSA dropping by to promte their org at a couple of the largest AS events would not be bad either.

If they did 1) an 2) I'd be in.

Ld
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Old August 11th, 2008, 11:11   #131
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Last I checked we didnt even have a national club to join in the first place... you know, dues, elected officials... etc. Even the local "groups" are just a bunch of guys with no national association. We have no collective FPS limits, rules or guidelines.

I think if we're to be taken seriously, we're going to have to start acting seriously.
That would be huge. I guess we're sort of hoping this CSSA body will embrace our plight.

Nationally sanctioned events would be a big step. ASC has a loose network for age identifiers etc, perhaps there can be agreed upon/legally copesthetic standards we can write in stone for these sanctioned games and could create an 'ASC official' role, one of whom would be at each game bearing the ASC rubber stamp to oversee the implementation of chronoing, safety equipment use, etc.

If it meant leading up to a legal way of distributing airsoft under a special license or exclusion (the thing our scene actually needs to flourish) through governing body distribution that could verify purchasing member status, at least we'de have a platform to stand on to present our case.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 13:05   #132
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Originally Posted by Proteus View Post
Have you noticed that the responses here are more concerned with the impossibility and improbability of any change occuring?

Only one person has voiced ONE concern over what he would like changed.

Everyone else has a contrary excuse why it can't be done.

Are you also aware that excuses are a justification for giving up or giving in?

And I asked you some simple questions and you failed to answer them, too:

What's your relationship with CSSA?

How can CSSA help us, as airsofters, specifically?



You think we're just gonna drop $45 on an org that may not only not help us but actually has a good chunk of members opposed to us? Without some kind of tangible benefit at the very least being waved at us? Not MY $45, buddy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog View Post
1) A clearly articulated policy by the CSSA, in writing, that showed that they both clearly understood our issues as airsofters and had a realistic idea of how to make airsoft more accessible in Canada.

2) A change to their constitution that would ensure airsofters would be represented on their governing bodies to a certain proportion, not just based on straight numbers. IE a certain number of ASers would be required on their Board of however they are governed.

This gentleman understands. He can he speak for me.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 13:43   #133
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Originally Posted by Lawdog View Post
Sorry to take so long to respond I was away from my computer for a couple of days:

1) A clearly articulated policy by the CSSA, in writing, that showed that they both clearly understood our issues as airsofters and had a realistic idea of how to make airsoft more accessible in Canada.

2) A change to their constitution that would ensure airsofters would be represented on their governing bodies to a certain proportion, not just based on straight numbers. IE a certain number of ASers would be required on their Board of however they are governed.

3) Members of the CSSA dropping by to promte their org at a couple of the largest AS events would not be bad either.

If they did 1) an 2) I'd be in.

Ld

I'm with Drake on this. LD gets it. If we could get those 3 things happening, then I'd have no qualms about sending in my membership fee.

It's not really about the money. I just don't see the point in joining in with an organization that would basically laugh at us with our "toys", and that's basically the way we're seen by serious gun enthusiasts at the moment.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 14:05   #134
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Joining the CSSA

Can't hurt,

They already have quite an active airgun scene. Airsoft guns are not a stretch.. and we are doing a Shooting Sport.

Leveraging their clout ( such as it is) to our benefit makes a load of sense.. if the conditions articulated by LD were in the mix.

Its not impossible to see a change in legislation... just not very likely.. Everywhere I have looked on the Legal and enforcment side of things has the following outlook on AS..

"we know its out there... we don't want to have to spend resources on enforcement unless there is widespread and obvious abuse..CBSA is doing the most to meet the enforcement requirements in the non proliferation of replica guns, responsible use by adults is not on our radar"
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Old August 11th, 2008, 16:37   #135
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Sorry to take so long to respond I was away from my computer for a couple of days:

1) A clearly articulated policy by the CSSA, in writing, that showed that they both clearly understood our issues as airsofters and had a realistic idea of how to make airsoft more accessible in Canada.

2) A change to their constitution that would ensure airsofters would be represented on their governing bodies to a certain proportion, not just based on straight numbers. IE a certain number of ASers would be required on their Board of however they are governed.

3) Members of the CSSA dropping by to promte their org at a couple of the largest AS events would not be bad either.

If they did 1) an 2) I'd be in.

Ld
That's great.

Now we have an idea of what we want. Next we should conduct a poll to see how many other airsofters would be interested in this focus and be willing to part with $45.

Then we could approach CSSA with some numbers and see if they are interested and what they could for us.

Anyone know how to conduct a poll?
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