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Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges

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Old August 8th, 2008, 14:32   #106
Crunchmeister
 
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I agree with Drake. Despite the fact we may see them as guns and treat them accordingly with the same respect as real firearms and that the government treats them with even more predjudice than real steel, most serious sports shooters I've spoken to consider them nothing but toys and not worthy of any serious consideration. If THEY were to see airsoft guns as something more serious, then I agree it would be a great start and we'd have an organized, well-established group that could lobby on our behalf. However, I don't see this happening.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 20:17   #107
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800 maybe seem a high number for seizure, but it can be explain..

Remeber that were 12 airsoft retailer at that time and many all of us were part of this massive shuipment that was coming trough + a lot of inventory for XP..

There were order of 10 to 60 AEG/GBB per retailer, and the number can be right. I know some order detail from fellow retailer that like myself had order coming in from peter kang.

Some were lucky in getting their money back some not..

JF
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Old August 9th, 2008, 08:55   #108
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Originally Posted by Crunchmeister View Post
I agree with Drake. Despite the fact we may see them as guns and treat them accordingly with the same respect as real firearms and that the government treats them with even more predjudice than real steel, most serious sports shooters I've spoken to consider them nothing but toys and not worthy of any serious consideration. If THEY were to see airsoft guns as something more serious, then I agree it would be a great start and we'd have an organized, well-established group that could lobby on our behalf. However, I don't see this happening.
Money is money and money talks.

The current membership of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association is about 15,000. With a yearly membership cost of $45 each they would bring in about $675,000.

On this forum there are 27,530 members. If every airsoft member joined the CSSA revenues would triple by an additional $1.2 million.

If only half joined, the CSSA membership numbers would double, so would their revenue and also their lobby voice would be louder.

Within the airsoft community we have ex-military and reservists, policemen and peace officers, professionals and many other law biding Canadians who have one thing in common ...... they all have a little boy inside who likes to dress up in a uniform and play toy guns with his friends on weekends.

We would bring a lot to the CSSA community ...... members and money. They will give us organization, focus and a voice.

How much do you have invested? $1000? more?

The price of membership is a couple of packets of BB's .... $45.

We can talk and wait for the coming of the Airsoft Messiah .....or join an organization that is real.

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/whoarewe.html

Last edited by Proteus; August 9th, 2008 at 08:59.. Reason: link problem
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Old August 9th, 2008, 09:24   #109
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Money is money and money talks.

The current membership of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association is about 15,000. With a yearly membership cost of $45 each they would bring in about $675,000.

On this forum there are 27,530 members. If every airsoft member joined the CSSA revenues would triple by an additional $1.2 million.

If only half joined, the CSSA membership numbers would double, so would their revenue and also their lobby voice would be louder.

Within the airsoft community we have ex-military and reservists, policemen and peace officers, professionals and many other law biding Canadians who have one thing in common ...... they all have a little boy inside who likes to dress up in a uniform and play toy guns with his friends on weekends.

We would bring a lot to the CSSA community ...... members and money. They will give us organization, focus and a voice.

How much do you have invested? $1000? more?

The price of membership is a couple of packets of BB's .... $45.

We can talk and wait for the coming of the Airsoft Messiah .....or join an organization that is real.

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/whoarewe.html

I take it you're already a member?

Why don't you get them to put up something explicit about airsoft on their website and explain what they can do for us and our particular situation -- doubling their membership base should be a decent impetus. I'm sure ASC members would become a lot more interested.

But until then, I still believe the traditional view that we're unlicensed and using what they generally perceive as prohibited/illegal (replica) toys just makes us more of a liability/hot potato than we're worth. Back in the day, I remember even airguns (bona fide pellet guns with decent power) were looked down upon by a lot of the "real gun owners."
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Old August 9th, 2008, 10:11   #110
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To make change you have to be on the inside.

It is simple to accomodate the needs of a fellow member when they are providing more than half of the revenues.

Because the alternative is a 50+% drop in membership and revenues after one year if the ASC members quit.

Right now we have nothing to offer but empty words.

$45 gives us a real voice because money talks.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 10:25   #111
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I have spoken to guys in Law enforcement, including high ranking officers in the Provincial weapons enforcement unit, When asked if there is any enforcement action planned on airsoft he laughed and said " we have real guns, making real victims everyday, airsoft is not on the radar.

That being said, I would not want to open a retail store in Torornto, the chance of the thug element getting them is too great.
Problem isn't law enforcment (several LE members play games here). Many of us have spoken directly to, and had favourable encounters with LE. As MacGuyver pointed out earlier, its CBSA. There is only two ways to bring 'replicas' into this country legally and neither of them allow for the type of distribution required to sell them in a store to just anybody. This is where the problem starts and the one that ties the hands of potential retailers in this country. Its why for years retailers come and go and nothing is permanent except the fact there will always be someone coming for every someone going. Owning them isn't illegal, noone has anything to worry about. If you receive a visit or call from CBSA, they will be looking for you to admit you bought it as proof against the retailer, not to bust you personally - but has that ever even happened to anyone? I'm curious, but I've never heard it in my years.

With regards to pistols, I can understand emphasis being placed on them by CBSA. Pistol related crimes are prevalent and pistols are easily concealed. There may be a low amount of replicas used in crime, but it only takes a few sensationalized stories involving replica pistols for CBSA to start to take heat about how they are getting here, since its technically their job to see that they don't. Incidents of replica rifles being used in crime is ... well, I'm sure its happened somewhere, but I can't think of anything lately. Anyways, its safe to say that noone is walking around in a mall right now with an mk11 mod0 tucked in their pants to look tough.

Under current legislation and trends, this sport will always exist in an 'underground' capacity. To go prime-time, there needs to be advertising and competition. The laws successfully keep the lid on airsoft distribution to the masses, but we live in a country where we can exhibit free will and our sport really is safe and well self-policed, so we are able to continue to eek it out low-down on the radar as responsible hobbyists.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 11:57   #112
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The CBSA recieves direction from the Feds.

To make changes, a unified voice for lobbying is required and that requires money.

ASC does not have the infrastucture to do that. We talk about it .... but it is just talk.

Under the radar we will continue to pay inflated prices for a poor selection of products.

For $45 now, we may be able to make a change for next year.

You know the adage ...... money talks, etc ....
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Old August 10th, 2008, 09:25   #113
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I am skeptical that the CSSA would vigorously advocate on our issues.

Like Drake, if you want a bunch of AS members and their money they should be outreaching to us, not us running to them. If we are going to be half their members, or even 10% we should also be assured a role in their governance.

I look forward to hearing from them.

Ld
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Old August 10th, 2008, 11:16   #114
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Ok, I'll contact them.

So .... they will gain an increase in revenues and membership.

For you to become a member what do you want from them?

To part with $45 what is important to you?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 13:05   #115
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There's probably a number of overlap between the two in membership already.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 13:26   #116
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For you to become a member what do you want from them?
As Lawdog already said, we want them to tell us what they can do for our effort to legalize airsoft.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 13:36   #117
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As Lawdog already said, we want them to tell us what they can do for our effort to legalize airsoft.

Ok ..... so specifically, what is it in airsoft that you want legalized and are willing to pay $45 to obtain it?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 15:02   #118
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Ok ..... so specifically, what is it in airsoft that you want legalized and are willing to pay $45 to obtain it?
Honestly, our biggest obstacle is legal distribution. If we didn't need to rely on licenses that don't account for getting guns to players after importation, all the troubles would be solved.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 15:25   #119
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Hey Proteus

I think its good that CSSA has their own organization and has a whole mobilized front to help promote their cause for just $45.

But the majour downfall is that there are also organizations that are opposed to any form of guns, not saying we are all gun totting, random drive by shooting thugs but the vast majority of those people see guns = bad = death. And lets say you can get past them and gather enough people to your cause, then you have to deal with the politicians and lawmakers.

Sure you can get lobbyist to lobby for us but the thing is you will need very powerful lobbyist mainly the ones who lobby for tobacco companies. And most of us aren't multi-millionaires to afford them.

As for getting politicans on your side to vouch for you is very hard, even if they happen to be gun owners or airsoft players their main concern is not about the merits of how we police ourselves or the merits of how we can be lawful citizens with guns, or how much money there is in the industry. All it comes down to is votes. Money talks but votes speak louder, would they be able to win more votes for vouching for us? They will win our votes but then again how many votes will they lose supporting us?

$45 is not hard to give up but its the thought of joining something that you are skeptical about is even a bigger deterrent.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 16:09   #120
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From some of the sport shooters I've talked to, they woud look at airsoft owners joining their shooting association with the same respect that moped owners would get joining a sport bike association. Isn't going to happen because they just won't take us seriously.
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