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Border Services probe nets 800 illegal replica guns, 78 criminal charges

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Old August 11th, 2008, 16:40   #136
Lawdog
 
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I think you should go a head with your poll, but I don't know who your "we" is white man, but I think they should be approaching "us", not vice versa.

To date, there is no unified "we" in airsoft to either speak for the community or represent our interests.

Ld
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Old August 11th, 2008, 17:12   #137
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Originally Posted by Drake View Post
And I asked you some simple questions and you failed to answer them, too:

What's your relationship with CSSA?

How can CSSA help us, as airsofters, specifically?



You think we're just gonna drop $45 on an org that may not only not help us but actually has a good chunk of members opposed to us? Without some kind of tangible benefit at the very least being waved at us? Not MY $45, buddy.


This gentleman understands. He can he speak for me.
My dear Drake ....

I understand for some people $45 is nothing and for others it is a small fortune. Perhaps an explanation will alleviate some of your concerns.

I am just a member of the CSSA. Nothing else ...nothing special ..... zippo...just a member. Just like I'm a member in this community forum.

I joined the CSSA because I came to realize the aisoft community has no recognized representation, no focus and we are as organized as a bunch of wild goats running up and down hills.

How can the CSSA help us?

They have an infrastructure in place and we have squat. We also have a common interest ..... airguns.

To have some sort of credibility in any discussion or negotiation with the CSSA we need to have an idea of what we want and how many people are also interested in joining.

At that point we can say: we are interested in this and this is the number of people that would be willing to join your organization. Now, what can you do for us?

Until we have that focus, no meaningful dialogue will occur.


Proteus


btw ... you sound like a prosecutor or do you just watch a lot of JAG?
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Old August 11th, 2008, 17:15   #138
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One thing is true they support Shooting Sport and technically we fall under their scope of shooting sports, so yes they will support us as long as we pay the annual membership of $45

BUT

What what can they do for us? After reading on the CSSA, the things they do are pretty much the same we already do for ourselves, they host games, they have shooting training courses, gun maintenance courses and self-police their members. We already have all that here too.

They are politically active but they are fighting for rights on real guns and replica guns do not fall under that category. So legislation wise I have no clue what they can do for us
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Old August 11th, 2008, 17:17   #139
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I would be pleased to hear who their lobbyists are.

Ld
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Old August 11th, 2008, 18:25   #140
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I would be pleased to hear who their lobbyists are.

Ld
Lawdog ...

You are far more articulate and eloquent in your postings than I. You also are able to verbalize what other are thinking, but are unable to express themselves in an effective and concise manner.

Would you consider asking some of those questions?

Proteus
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Old August 11th, 2008, 18:41   #141
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My friend, I am not looking for representation by an org at the moment, so I'm not chasing them. But if they are trying to pitch me I am always willing to listen.

and if they every show up at a game I am at, all the better.

Ld
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Old August 11th, 2008, 22:53   #142
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Many airsofters I've seen drift from here have embraced "real steel" shooting anyway, I like what Lawdog says, I'd love them to come to border wars(If it's ok with the hosts), 150-200 airsofters in one place....whew x 45 is a lot.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 23:39   #143
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My dear Drake ....

I understand for some people $45 is nothing and for others it is a small fortune. Perhaps an explanation will alleviate some of your concerns.
A dollar misspent is a greater loss than $100 well spent.



Quote:
I am just a member of the CSSA. Nothing else ...nothing special ..... zippo...just a member. Just like I'm a member in this community forum.
Okay. Knowing whom we're talking to helps put what's being said into perspective.



Quote:
How can the CSSA help us?

They have an infrastructure in place and we have squat. We also have a common interest ..... airguns.

That's a good start, considering I've encountered negative attitudes from firearm owners towards airgun owners in the past. It shouldn't be a huge stretch for them to mention airsoft, then.



Quote:
To have some sort of credibility in any discussion or negotiation with the CSSA we need to have an idea of what we want and how many people are also interested in joining.

At that point we can say: we are interested in this and this is the number of people that would be willing to join your organization. Now, what can you do for us?

Until we have that focus, no meaningful dialogue will occur.

As LD previously mentioned, I think it should be the other way around. Realistically, numbers-wise, I'd say somewhere between 1000 and 3000 new people is what we have to offer, depending on what CSSA offers and taking into account a number of people are gun owners and already CSSA members.

If CSSA adhesion brings positive results, I'm sure that number can increase as word filters down to other groups, etc.

But right now I think it's up to CSSA to make a statement that airsoft actually IS something they'd stand up for.




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btw ... you sound like a prosecutor or do you just watch a lot of JAG?
Worse: I use to be a college professor. (technically I still am, I'm just on rest-of-my-life sabbatical :P)
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Old August 12th, 2008, 07:26   #144
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Sorry to take so long to respond I was away from my computer for a couple of days:

1) A clearly articulated policy by the CSSA, in writing, that showed that they both clearly understood our issues as airsofters and had a realistic idea of how to make airsoft more accessible in Canada.

2) A change to their constitution that would ensure airsofters would be represented on their governing bodies to a certain proportion, not just based on straight numbers. IE a certain number of ASers would be required on their Board of however they are governed.

3) Members of the CSSA dropping by to promte their org at a couple of the largest AS events would not be bad either.

If they did 1) an 2) I'd be in.

Ld
Ok, we'll try approaching them first and asking what they can do for us.

I sent off an email to the CSSA this morning including the points mentioned by Lawdog.

I'll post their reply.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 09:13   #145
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I think a new thread should be started on this CSSA thing, since the discussion has changed completely from the original topic.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 10:16   #146
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Agreed daiviet.

And I also agree LD definitely has the right idea.
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Old August 15th, 2008, 10:44   #147
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I normally don't post comments but I think I have too here. As someone who was shooting all kinds of firearms long before I heard of airsoft, this group will not touch us with a 10 foot pole. To responsable firearm users we are everything they strived to distance themselves from. Nothing makes the guys at my handgun range more steamed that guys showing up in camo talking about thier "weapon". Ranks right up there with people showing up to gunshows in fatigues. These organizations have worked hard to come across as respectable, level headed, honest people. If one of the groups they are lobbying took one look at an airsoft game all the work they have done for years would go right out the window. We are a detriment to them. No amount of added revenue or added members would be worth the risk for them.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 01:42   #148
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.... Don't the police have better things to be doing then chasing down replicas that shoot plastic BBs?
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Old August 16th, 2008, 01:46   #149
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.... Don't the police have better things to be doing then chasing down replicas that shoot plastic BBs?
Just like they have better things to do than write me speeding or parking tickets. But I promise you they spent extra time on me.
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Old August 17th, 2008, 01:33   #150
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Just like they have better things to do than write me speeding or parking tickets. But I promise you they spent extra time on me.
Eh, speeding's plan flat out illegal. Airsoft still charcoal gray inside of Canada... Or did I miss the legislation that says it's flat out illegal?
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