Airsoft Canada
BuyAirsoft

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

anderson order

:

General

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 30th, 2008, 13:34   #61
SHÖCK
aka SNK or Shaniqua
 
SHÖCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverhood View Post
So you spend 1000+ dollars on a toy? Good Fucking Greif! There's always a risk with airsoft, yeah maybe Mark should be alittle more forthcoming with info but cut the guys some slack, his hands are tied too.
From what I can tell from the Anderson & Anderson prices charged for AEGs when they were doing orders is that they had the typical 200-300%+ markup. IE: A $275 CA G36K at cost was invoiced for $750 for my friend.

That markup is supposed to be there for retailers to cover for lost/held shipments and is accepted by both buyer and vendor as the price for doing AEG business in Canada.

There is no excuse for not partially refunding people's lost orders when you have the built in margin of safety in that markup. Simply pocketing the markup as pure profit, cutting off communications with your paying and owed customers is even worse and frankly, even criminal. If they really did contest this in court however, I can see legal costs eating up all the money made from any airsoft deals.

I think people just want regular updates and contact regarding the situation so it doesn't spiral into another Props Canada type situation.

Last edited by SHÖCK; July 30th, 2008 at 13:39..
SHÖCK is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 13:36   #62
Gunk
In his Trunk!
 
Gunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mostly Canada
Send a message via MSN to Gunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by surebet View Post
My law courses are a tad far this morning, but I'm under the impression that fraud, a criminal act, can be persecuted either at any time without restriction or within a 3/5/10 year window depending on the classification of the offence.

Bah, for the fraud part I'm basicly pretty sure that on a criminal level time is not that much of an issue, however for different recovery methods it might be. I waited something like 45 days before calling quits and asking for the chargeback. Pretty sure you have 3/6/12 months do do so yourselves depending on the institution.

No statute of limitations?

I took a law class back in high school and we touched on that bit briefly, but I don't remember much of it... it was a first period class... the only thing that got me out of bed in the morning.
__________________
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor, and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old and wise." - J.R.R. Tolkien
Gunk is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:00   #63
infernal
 
infernal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary
Send a message via MSN to infernal
On one side I understand that there are a lot of people that feel they've been ripped off. It sucks that our fragile sport is infected with this sort of bullshit that continues year after year. I remember around the start of my career, the props canada bullshit that started. I figured people might learn from that and stop getting in on group orders for things that wernt in country. It seems this hasn't happend.

On the other side, I see a guy who definatly needs to get smacked in the mouth. Try your chargebacks and your legal threats, really. If this guy is actually doing what half of you say, he's already thought about it and decided he couldnt care less if you win. Personally, if someone did that to me, I'd find it much easier to let a couple of crackheads loose in his business rather than deal with the slow response times of lawyers.

Good luck to everyone... And sorry to the old boys for dropping the Props bomb
infernal is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:22   #64
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Pre-order = crap shoot

When you put money down on something that is not in country and ready to ship.. with full knowledge that CBSA can seize anything at any time. You aknowledge that your money may be lost.

You choose to give your money to someone who is willing to take the risk of ATTEMPTING to get restricted items in country. It is unreasonable to expect that person to also accept the financial risk, that is your part of the deal.

If this is not acceptable to you DON'T DO IT... The worst case scenario in all pre-order situations is.. you loose your money and get nothing. The best case is you get what you paid for.

Hounding someone who gambled with your money.. when you were a willing participant in the enterprise it tantamount to harrassment.. you Gambled you lost, move on.

Granted... in this case there may be evidence of Shenanigans... your remedy is legal.. clearly all the hue and cry is proving fruitless.. go to court.
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:26   #65
WARFIGHTER
formerly Knyte
 
WARFIGHTER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manitoba
I don't think Mark defined that as his terms of services though... Maybe I'm wrong.
__________________
WARFIGHTER is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:29   #66
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knyte View Post
I don't think Mark defined that as his terms of services though... Maybe I'm wrong.
Any reasonable person with even the basics of understanding regarding the import of Restricted items would know this.

If they did not.. they simply would have ordered direct themselves.. and found out the hard way.
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:31   #67
Maverick0
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
When you put money down on something that is not in country and ready to ship.. with full knowledge that CBSA can seize anything at any time. You aknowledge that your money may be lost.

You choose to give your money to someone who is willing to take the risk of ATTEMPTING to get restricted items in country. It is unreasonable to expect that person to also accept the financial risk, that is your part of the deal.

If this is not acceptable to you DON'T DO IT... The worst case scenario in all pre-order situations is.. you loose your money and get nothing. The best case is you get what you paid for.

Hounding someone who gambled with your money.. when you were a willing participant in the enterprise it tantamount to harrassment.. you Gambled you lost, move on.

Granted... in this case there may be evidence of Shenanigans... your remedy is legal.. clearly all the hue and cry is proving fruitless.. go to court.
I don't think that's quite fair. I know what you're saying, but unless it's explicitly detailed in a formal agreement between the buyer and the seller that they may not actually get what they want, then they should be entitled to some sort of compensation.

If it's such a crapshoot, why didn't these people simply make the order themselves instead of through A&A? Because through a retailer that has the right permits, it's supposed to be a sure fire thing, however delays are to be expected. Somehow, it seems that these people were led to believe that going through A&A was a sure deal because he is supposed to be legally allowed to import. At least, that's what I understand from all this, and I have to say, I personally thought Mark could bring stuff in the country without problems, save for inspection delays. If it was not guaranteed that the goods paid for would be delivered, that should have been made very clear.
__________________
Maverick0 is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:34   #68
Drache
BALLET, TYPE: SELF LOATHING, ANALBURST
 
Drache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick0 View Post
I don't think that's quite fair. I know what you're saying, but unless it's explicitly detailed in a formal agreement between the buyer and the seller that they may not actually get what they want, then they should be entitled to some sort of compensation.

If it's such a crapshoot, why didn't these people simply make the order themselves instead of through A&A? Because through a retailer that has the right permits, it's supposed to be a sure fire thing, however delays are to be expected. Somehow, it seems that these people were led to believe that going through A&A was a sure deal because he is supposed to be legally allowed to import. At least, that's what I understand from all this, and I have to say, I personally thought Mark could bring stuff in the country without problems, save for inspection delays. If it was not guaranteed that the goods paid for would be delivered, that should have been made very clear.
Here should be the deal! IF ITS SUCH A GAMBLE then why doesn't Mark give back the PROFIT from the guns? If you send him $700 for an AEG, mark buys that AEG from the USA for $200, but it gets confiscated, shouldn't mark give the $500 profit back?
Drache is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:35   #69
WARFIGHTER
formerly Knyte
 
WARFIGHTER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manitoba
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick0 View Post
I don't think that's quite fair. I know what you're saying, but unless it's explicitly detailed in a formal agreement between the buyer and the seller that they may not actually get what they want, then they should be entitled to some sort of compensation.

If it's such a crapshoot, why didn't these people simply make the order themselves instead of through A&A? Because through a retailer that has the right permits, it's supposed to be a sure fire thing, however delays are to be expected. Somehow, it seems that these people were led to believe that going through A&A was a sure deal because he is supposed to be legally allowed to import. At least, that's what I understand from all this, and I have to say, I personally thought Mark could bring stuff in the country without problems, save for inspection delays. If it was not guaranteed that the goods paid for would be delivered, that should have been made very clear.
Again, this pretty much sums up what I was gonna say...
__________________
WARFIGHTER is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:41   #70
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drache View Post
Here should be the deal! IF ITS SUCH A GAMBLE then why doesn't Mark give back the PROFIT from the guns? If you send him $700 for an AEG, mark buys that AEG from the USA for $200, but it gets confiscated, shouldn't mark give the $500 profit back?
I guess that would go a long way to making redress... but I expect there are legal costs .. and from all accounts the items are still in Limbo... so the deal may yet be fulfilled... until final resolution is realized.. the money is tied up.

How happy would people be to learn after a partial refund that .. now the stuff is released... what a financial mess that would be.
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:43   #71
Drache
BALLET, TYPE: SELF LOATHING, ANALBURST
 
Drache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I guess that would go a long way to making redress... but I expect there are legal costs .. and from all accounts the items are still in Limbo... so the deal may yet be fulfilled... until final resolution is realized.. the money is tied up.

How happy would people be to learn after a partial refund that .. now the stuff is released... what a financial mess that would be.
I only meant a refund if the item was actually seized and not just in limbo
Drache is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:43   #72
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick0 View Post
I don't think that's quite fair. I know what you're saying, but unless it's explicitly detailed in a formal agreement between the buyer and the seller that they may not actually get what they want, then they should be entitled to some sort of compensation.

.

I can't dissagree... but clearly that is not the position being taken... again.. I think the remedy is Legal.

If your positions are in opposition.. and there is no meeting of the minds.. the recourse is to take it to court.
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 14:54   #73
Maverick0
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I can't dissagree... but clearly that is not the position being taken... again.. I think the remedy is Legal.

If your positions are in opposition.. and there is no meeting of the minds.. the recourse is to take it to court.
I suppose so, but it just sucks to see the courts tied up further for something so easily remedied.
__________________

Last edited by Maverick0; July 30th, 2008 at 14:58..
Maverick0 is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 17:16   #74
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick0 View Post
I suppose so, but it just sucks to see the courts tied up further for something so easily remedied.
If it was easily remedied.. it would heve been
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline  
Old July 30th, 2008, 17:39   #75
Zekk05
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg
Send a message via ICQ to Zekk05 Send a message via AIM to Zekk05 Send a message via MSN to Zekk05 Send a message via Yahoo to Zekk05
You mentioned that when you put down money on something that is restricted... that you accept the chance of it being siezed and should accept the loss if it happens.

I agree.. this is the way it should be, if youre asking someone to do a favor for you, or doing it yourself.

But this is a business. You dont purchase items from a business with the Chance of getting it. If I ordered a rifle from SIR that wasnt in stock, Im not paying money for the CHANCE of getting it! Thats the point of buying through a business; to ensure you get what you pay for.

If you are a business who deals on the principal of chance, that someone can buy something and they MIGHT get it, I would say that business requires a manitoba lottery license, as this is a form of gambling and illegal to do so without.
__________________
Zekk05 is offline  
Closed ThreadTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Airsoft Canada
BuyAirsoft

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.