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Old January 30th, 2008, 15:26   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpel Felt View Post
Why must our country be like the legal laughing stock of the world. Our laws are so inefficient I get the picture of some beurocrat banging us on the head with a blunt club all day long.

Like seriously, if they want airsoft banned....then why don't they just fucking acknowledge it clearly and ban it??

If they want to tax the shit out of it and make money, why don't they get off their asses and do that?

Why don't they just make up their fucking minds? And why must our country be so soccer momish. Why can't they actually send someone out to do a case study on airsoft or something if they haven't already picked up enough about what it's really about on these boards.

As I was discussing with this 80 year old woman from Germany in my work, our government blows! And she was in quite the position to lecture me on efficiency and government issues being 80 and German and having lived there and all.

I know legal proceedings take for fucking ever, but seriously....There's what, only 32 millionish people in this country? It's now been almost 10 years since the last semi-direct action has been taken against airsoft and the hobby has done nothing but flourish in that time. If they have people watching us then they obviously have some intrest. Why the fuck can't they just do something?!?! (something good )
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Old January 30th, 2008, 15:28   #47
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Originally Posted by techobo View Post

So there really are two answers to the question, "Is airsoft legal to own?"

1. If you purchased it before 1998, yes.
2. If you purchased it after 1998, no.
No not exactly..

If you purchased a gun after 1998 you comitted an Illegal ACT the gun is still legal to posses regardless of when you got it.

ALL replica firearms are legal to own.. but according to the law you are not supposed to buy any after 1998..

No one can seize your guns just because you have them.. If they wanted to charge you with the ACT of illegal transfer they would need more than the basis that "you must have purchased it after 1998" A judge would laugh that out of court.

The fellow that got the Scare in PQ was videoed selling guns from the trunk of his car at games... they had him.. and even then they only threatened charges if he did not cease and desist.

There are lots of people in this community that would loose their livelyhood if they were convicted of a Criminal Firearms Charge.. Myself amoung them.. and I don't give it a second thought.. I have weighed the risk.. and it is vanishingly small.. I would likely win the lottery first...
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Old January 30th, 2008, 15:36   #48
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I should have clarified that more in the Q&A and i shall amend it. Brian is correct.

The problem lies in the fact that replicas were grandfathered, but there is no strong basis to prohibit ownership. A prohibited weapon that has been grandfathered requires a prohib PAL - you can't have one without the other. But without any sort of licensing for replicas, you can't grandfather them and make their possession illegal at the same time.

And as Brian pointed out, trying to charge you on the basis that you may or may not have bought a toy gun after 1998 is not exactly priority business for the courts.
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Old January 30th, 2008, 15:47   #49
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nice read, thanks HoJo..
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Old January 30th, 2008, 15:57   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
There are lots of people in this community that would loose their livelyhood if they were convicted of a Criminal Firearms Charge.. Myself amoung them.. and I don't give it a second thought.. I have weighed the risk.. and it is vanishingly small.. I would likely win the lottery first...
I think you summed it all up with that line right there. As long as people don't do stupid things with their guns, there's no reason to go after individuals for the act of transferring an airsoft gun. When you look at it on a bigger scale, if shops like A&A and 007 weren't shut down and convicted for overtly selling hundreds of guns on the Internet (even though they face heavy legal pressure and Mark has a lot of hassles with customs), then there's little chance of them ever coming after individuals for trading in single airsoft guns for private use and collection. These things are going into the hands of players and collectors - people that will be responsible owners, and not kids and criminals - and they know it. What's the point of spending tons of money to make criminals out of responsible 'toy' owners that have done nothing wrong. Yes, they could win in some cases if they were determined to, but it's hardly a victory worth fighting for on their limited resources.

I'm in the same boat that a firearms conviction of any kind would instantly lose my security clearance at work, and my job along with it. I don't give it a second though either. The only way airsoft is ever going to get me into legal trouble is if I go do something stupid with my guns. And if I do that, then I deserve whatever I have coming to me for being an idiot. And the chances of that ever happening are even slimmer than winning the lottery.
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Old January 30th, 2008, 18:37   #51
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Originally Posted by HonestJohn View Post
The problem lies in the fact that replicas were grandfathered, but there is no strong basis to prohibit ownership. A prohibited weapon that has been grandfathered requires a prohib PAL - you can't have one without the other. But without any sort of licensing for replicas, you can't grandfather them and make their possession illegal at the same time.
I think it's worth pointing out that our current situation is closer to de facto grandfathering than to de jure. To grandfather something is not just a term describing a special type of transfer, but represents an actual type of legislative wording. The permission to grandfather certain class of items are actually specific clauses explicitly written into Firearms Act (section 11).

I do not believe the situation with replica firearm possession was the result of grandfathering versus legality of possession, but rather the inpracticality of prohibiting all replica firearms in Canada. That was something far beyond what C-68 set out to do. Heck, what we have right now is still beyond that. I don't think it was a well publicized fact that the government wrote in a law that, should they choose, would stop everything that looked like a gun from coming into Canada and significantly reshape future Canadian generations. Essentially, if you think the zero tolerance policy as school is strict, think of a zero tolerance society (the irony being that legal ownership of real firearms would probably still exist).
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Old January 30th, 2008, 23:00   #52
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Old January 31st, 2008, 19:47   #53
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On the whole 1998 law thing, I'm wondering something. May be this is not the spot to be asking this but, the paintball shop downtown of where I live, sells basicly "airsoft".. It ranges from 150$ ish to 300$ ish I've seen. The guns usually have metal bodies, are 1:1, and mostly have crap to okay internals. How on earth does this work? Like, how do they manage to get their guns in or where from? For example, I've seen the Kirenex in there, a Lycan MP-5, and some other aftermath brands. Now I understand some provinces have stores which get the odd Kraken AK which is clear, does that make a slight difference? Wee bit confuzed on this one, and sorry if this is entirely the wrong place to be asking this.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 12:32   #54
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Originally Posted by Forever_kaos View Post
On the whole 1998 law thing, I'm wondering something. May be this is not the spot to be asking this but, the paintball shop downtown of where I live, sells basicly "airsoft".. It ranges from 150$ ish to 300$ ish I've seen. The guns usually have metal bodies, are 1:1, and mostly have crap to okay internals. How on earth does this work? Like, how do they manage to get their guns in or where from? For example, I've seen the Kirenex in there, a Lycan MP-5, and some other aftermath brands. Now I understand some provinces have stores which get the odd Kraken AK which is clear, does that make a slight difference? Wee bit confuzed on this one, and sorry if this is entirely the wrong place to be asking this.
Many customs officials and border entry points aren't well versed in what replicas are, or that they are necessarily disallowed.

The problem comes down to whether they are treated as toys or replica guns. In some cases businesses have been importing them for so long, permits or not, that neither they nor the customs officials who might process their imports realize there's a problem - yet. In due time I would expect they will get the attention of the powers that be, but it can take a very very long time.

Clear guns are ok to import, and are considered imitation firearms.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 12:52   #55
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Originally Posted by HonestJohn View Post
Many customs officials and border entry points aren't well versed in what replicas are, or that they are necessarily disallowed.
well...that pretty much tells you where to come through when coming back from the states.

anyways,

who can i write letters, send E-mails and things like that, so that airsoft can switch from gray to green? and all the blah blah blah that comes with it?

I want names, address's and E-mails.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 13:06   #56
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Originally Posted by Sergeantmajor View Post
well...that pretty much tells you where to come through when coming back from the states.

anyways,

who can i write letters, send E-mails and things like that, so that airsoft can switch from gray to green? and all the blah blah blah that comes with it?

I want names, address's and E-mails.

If you want to have the best effect.. join the gun lobby, add your money and voice to an already heard chorus. Repealing the prohibitions on replicas would likely have the best chance of happening piggy backing on larger changes to the Firearms Act and the related Criminal Code statutes.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 14:25   #57
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Originally Posted by HonestJohn View Post
Many customs officials and border entry points aren't well versed in what replicas are, or that they are necessarily disallowed.

The problem comes down to whether they are treated as toys or replica guns. In some cases businesses have been importing them for so long, permits or not, that neither they nor the customs officials who might process their imports realize there's a problem - yet. In due time I would expect they will get the attention of the powers that be, but it can take a very very long time.

Clear guns are ok to import, and are considered imitation firearms.
Ah, luck buggers... Thanks though.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 15:05   #58
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tank for this post HonestJohn. this is very good information
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 15:52   #59
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i understand that Bass Pro can't import airsoft because most of our guns are prohibited and restricted. but what about legal guns such as an M24 (Remington 700)? why couldn't they import that since the real steel is legal to own in canada? im probably going to get flamed for this, but i just want to ask questions from every angle so as to expand my knowledge base.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 15:58   #60
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It would still be a replica. Get this, you could have a replica of a pellet gun, a pellet gun like what's used for airgun competition shooting that shoots over 500 fps (ie. it is considered a firearm and needs to be registered) and 5.7J. That replica is a prohibited device, even though it replicates a pellet gun.

The law does not differentiate whether the replica replicates a non-restricted, restricted or prohibited firearm. If the gun is not considered a firearm, it's replica is not prohibited.
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