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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:07   #346
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No more as of March 31st...? Maybe it's just a really mean April Fools joke?

Well, as long as someone can supply our needs, I guess we'll make it through this.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:12   #347
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Originally Posted by happytit View Post
there should be a lot done with the comunity but no one has steped up and started anything. there is no real leaders in this comunity..
Plenty have tried to do exactly this. The consensus of the airsoft community is that it's better to not rock the boat and to continue flying under the radar. Every attempt I've ever seen has been shot down in flames.

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Originally Posted by vatek View Post
And given that most guns don't have unique serial numbers that would certainly get interesting.
I fully intend to exploit this if registration ever becomes required. I plan on buying at least one of every gun I can get my hands on that has a serial number on it, then file a police report that I had several hundred of each model stolen. In the report I'll give them the names and addresses of everyone on this board. Then I'll open up an airsoft store

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So you may not be able to buy EXACTLY what you want when you want.
You never could. Although retailers in the past could get pretty much any mainstream gun coming out on the market, not many Canadian retailers could get you a limited edition gun X, or get you something the day it came out. In the past I had wanted to pick up a few different pieces, but no retailer could get the items I wanted in. Most notably I wanted a Piper M134. Every retailer I contacted pretty much laughed at the idea of getting one into Canada.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:17   #348
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Of course, that would require you to have the names and addresses of everyone on the board.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:27   #349
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The only people that knock chinese guns are those that haven't used them but that's for another thread. They're not perfect but with a little work, they are better than a marui for alot less cash. Can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with the saint.
It's too bad that we're losing a retailer but there's lots of us that have gotten by just fine without them and will continue to do so.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:31   #350
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Originally Posted by Gonzo Sleeper View Post
Is there a sticky thread that explaines all of the legal problems with airsoft so we do not have the arguments like we see on this thread by people who do not actually know anything and just give speculation? Seems like a waste of time to me.
There is not, but I think I will write one up.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:34   #351
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after reading the rulings by the CSBA posted earlier, looks like they have the law on their side.

That being said, I think all they want to do is limit the amount of new guns coming in for the mass sales. There are plenty of NIB guns in the for sale section, including what i can only describe as a makeshift store. Really all thats happened is Joe Mentally Unstable Anybody cant go out and buy a gun without first being established in the community. This is no way meant to insult A&As security, but in a way, isnt this what some people here were pushing for?
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:34   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwag View Post
The only people that knock chinese guns are those that haven't used them but that's for another thread. They're not perfect but with a little work, they are better than a marui for alot less cash. Can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with the saint.
It's too bad that we're losing a retailer but there's lots of us that have gotten by just fine without them and will continue to do so.
For the most part, when you replace most of the internals, you essentially build a new gun.

Rather, it is cheaper to build a better gun (than TM) for less cash. I don't see a point in buying a base chinese gun for $400 only to replace all of the parts, having the stock parts left over which you could re-assemble into another gun.

I am glad that metal bodies are (currently) readily available. Assembling guns is pretty cost efficient and everything else is (mostly) importable. The only issues I see is that GBBs will be increasingly difficult to obtain as many cannot be built from scratch.
-Fury
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Old January 29th, 2008, 13:52   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond_SEA View Post
There are plenty of NIB guns in the for sale section, including what i can only describe as a makeshift store.

You're going to be seeing a lot of these NIB arriving at peoples doors, only for them to find out that it has been painted & beat on... Just ask APOC !
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:01   #354
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Macgyver argues that it's because of some sort of favouritism towards airguns relative to airsoft, apparently on the part of RCMP. I argue that it's not clear if we're dealing with intentional policy cooperation between the RCMP and CITT/CBSA or if we're just dealing with the collision of different agencies' ignorance.
I'm not sure it's as much favoritism as it is dumb luck. Of all the guns in issue in all the appeals, none of them were in fact capable of shooting at this 407 fps level. So, by the RCMPs standard, they don't cause injury enough to be a firearm.

My problem is with the standard itself. Where's the testing on this? Where's the data? The best I've come across is a sprts injury study from Florida done in 1997 by some sports injury think-tank (if I get ambitious I'll look for it later). If you google BB gun + eye + injury, you'll get all kinds of studies and info. However, this is not the end-all-be-all of data, and the RCMP goes a little overboard in ensuring our safety. Many nations have seem to come to a consensus on 1J as being a safe limit, but the RCMP is at or above 2J (depending on ammo). If they were at the 1J level as Britian, Japan, Italy, etc, you'd see alot more guns capable of being considered firearms, but not replicas.

How many guns out there can (if sent in stock form to the RCMP lab) actually shoot in excess of 407 fps, but under 500 fps with merely the insertion of a battery and some BBs? Not very many (MAX PTWs are the only electric guns that come to mind), so just the luck of the draw says that up until now, the Marui, Western Arms, KSC, etc that have been involved in CITT appeals have not met this minimum performance burden, so the replica classification of those guns was a result.

In Peter Kangs defence though, he did allow 2 guns to get seized, took the appeals process through at least 4 levels of review, retained legal counsel and fought it all the way to the CITT, which took over 5 years from seizure date to hearing. He did present evidence, but his result was still a denied appeal. The CITT is not a court of law, so perhaps the rules of evidence and testimony are a little different there. He had the option to still take it to Federal Court, where he could have maybe had more success, but I understand why he didn't. What would it cost him? Thousands upon thousands. And for what? If he won, it could've opened the gates for guns (at least for a time) as the CBSA would have to bow to a Federal Court decision regarding replicas. It could also have forced policy change at the CFC-level as well. And if that meant we could order all those nice guns from Redwolf directly, how would Kang have benefitted financially from that? All of this at a time when Kang-bashing was all the rage, especially on ASC.

I would have given up as well.

That's the way I understand the situation between the CBSA, the RCMP and the CITT.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:35   #355
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Angry Rrplicas...

In all the years I been reading and studing the laws between airsoft and replicas... And trying to find that loop hole, and all I been finding is some grey areas in the matter at hand... I still find it, in my opinion - that weather it being a toy gun a bb gun or just a plan ol replica gun is just silly to prohibit, just because it looks like a real gun. People should be able to chose to buy one just for ether to collect or to play with in a sim war. But if some morons out there want to use a replica in an unlawful way, then I say let the law deal with it... But for some of us good citizens out there that want replicas shoudn't have to pay for the idits out there.... But should be aloud to buy them or even to import them with out a damn licence... Sure I'll pay all the taxs that come with it... But why punish those of who want replicas with all good intentions of being a law byding... "Sorry this subject just drives me nuts...."
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:37   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
Many nations have seem to come to a consensus on 1J as being a safe limit, but the RCMP is at or above 2J (depending on ammo). If they were at the 1J level as Britian, Japan, Italy, etc, you'd see alot more guns capable of being considered firearms, but not replicas.

How many guns out there can (if sent in stock form to the RCMP lab) actually shoot in excess of 407 fps, but under 500 fps with merely the insertion of a battery and some BBs? Not very many (MAX PTWs are the only electric guns that come to mind), so just the luck of the draw says that up until now, the Marui, Western Arms, KSC, etc that have been involved in CITT appeals have not met this minimum performance burden, so the replica classification of those guns was a result.
.
Heh, if you ever get involved in something like that, just throw an M150 or M160 spring in there
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:38   #357
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I'll bet if there was an AIRSOFT Tax of 7% created the government would make sure it was legal...
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:43   #358
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The CBSA does not give you the oppourtunity to install a spring in your gun before they send it to the RCMP for testing. You could do it to a Marui, but it's pretty much impossible to be convincing when the box the gun comes in says 90 m/s. That's why Peter Kang used G&P to start importing that way, removed all manuals, installed heavy springs and let the RCMP test the guns. He brought alot of them in that way too, at least 20 or more made their way to Northern Alberta, where I replaced the springs in many of them with something a little less than the 450fps the came to us with.

Think about how many guns come with a manual or printing on the box stating velocity. How do you pre-upgrade them, and make it reasonable to believe?
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:44   #359
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CITT rulings often make very little sense to people even involved in them.

The rulings normally come down to satisfy a lobby group with a vested interest. A high-volume, mass merchant like C-Tire or their supplier Crossman would have that interest in keeping what they sell legal and importable without special processing fees.

Even if the first product with an OK is identical to Person #2's which is disputed. Person #2 will be crushed like an ant by the ruling and the big guys who pay the taxes in a critical riding will skate along. The unfunny thing is they'll often rule the opposite and lump items together as "like goods" even when they aren't if that ruling will better suit the way the wind blows.
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Old January 29th, 2008, 14:46   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
Think about how many guns come with a manual or printing on the box stating velocity. How do you pre-upgrade them, and make it reasonable to believe?
I dunno, ask the store you're buying it from to remove all manuals and install a stronger spring? For a fee, of course.
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