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Old January 25th, 2008, 02:29   #1
The Lettonian
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Ages, etc. - sorry to bring this up again...

So after much reading, I've come up with this: Everyone on ASC hates anyone who isn't 18 yet. It's a blanket statement, and yeah there are exceptions, etc etc. I come from a family where responsible use of firearms is taught alongside potty training. Personally, I can't remember not using guns. That being said, I am now 18, and so above the automatic flaming for being a minor (but still open to it if I'm an ass - I know) BUT have a younger brother who is looking into the sport. He is currently 15. (16 in August). My questions are as follows:

Who constitutes a legal guardian? Somehow I doubt an older sibling qualifies, but hey, here's hoping.
Furthermore, although the seeming minimum age for participation in SOME airsoft games seems to be 16, is that an absolute?
I really want to get him out to some bigger games at some point, especially since I'm organizing less and less of my own. Is there any way I could do that?

Now, before you immediately respond that clearly he's still in Kindergarten, I'd kindly ask you to offer useful advice that I can use. If you feel compelled to point out that "he's way too young, period!" then please refrain from any derogatory phrasing of that statement. I'm not here to get my ass flamed off, I'm just an older brother who wants to keep a family member and familiar teammate involved.

Thanks! And sorry for my wordiness.

p.s. He does have some experience in airsoft already, but not at any "official" events. I can explain more if necessary.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 02:42   #2
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Personaly I hate many people for many reasons, age rarely comes into it.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 02:48   #3
Shirley
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It depends on the host. You should ask the host first. But I am sure you are a LEGAL guardian since he is your brother, and you're 18 right? Correct me if I'm wrong there...
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Old January 25th, 2008, 02:55   #4
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I also have to disagree about us hating minors, we in fact hate e-thug gangsta wannabes which we typically get many of. As for your age question, some games are 16+. It all depends on who organizes the games.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 03:02   #5
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Most people dislike younger players for three repeated offences of people their age:

1) Immature/ dishonourable gameplay. That is to say, most kids that age are too geared up at the fact that they're living out CounterStrike to pay any attention to honour, respect and maturity.

2) Self-Imposed Ignorance, when someone asks a question that can be found out by a) googling it or b) checking the FAQ's but are too lazy or "in too much of a hurry" (I love that excuse, it's as if the internet's content will vanish before they ask the question).

3) Disregard for other players' and/ or their equipment. In the haste of being youthful, manners are often tossed aside.

Like you said concerning ASC's "hate for minors," there are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

---

Now, as for your brother playing, it usually comes down to two factors:

1) The Field Owner
2) The Teams/ Organization Involved

If the teams or organization involved are willing to take a chance and allow a minor to join in for a game, that's all well and good. However, it also takes the field owner to allow a minor on their field. Some don't for simple insurance reasons, not out of spite or hate for young players, but out of fear of repercussions for injuries to a minor sustained on their property.

So ask around. It really doesn't hurt to ask. Don't just assume a no answer will be handed down. Ask the players involved and ask the field owner. If they're willing to make arrangements for you and your brother, then great, if not then he'll have to sit and wait like the rest of the underage players.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 03:06   #6
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Here's the problem, I come on my info in somewhat of a parallel path when minors injure themselves while performing risky activities.

As it's been put to me, parents cannot act for their children in legal matters such as a lawsuit. There is a risk that if you attempt to settle before the child reaches the age of majority they could upon reaching legal adult status choose to sue again for further damages if it could be shown that the parents hadn't acted in their best interests.

So lets say a minor is sponsored into a game by an older relative in good standing. The minor breaks a leg or looses an eye. Years later as this gnaws away at them till they decide it's time for a payout. At that point anyone who organized or sponsored an event or was even on the ground that day will be in the lawyers gunsights.

There's 50 year olds who act like spoiled brats so I'm told but since they're of legal age they can do what they want. If you haven't reached legal age then your options are limited.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 04:17   #7
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Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman View Post
It depends on the host. You should ask the host first. But I am sure you are a LEGAL guardian since he is your brother, and you're 18 right? Correct me if I'm wrong there...
You are wrong.

A legal guardian is a person of legal age charged with the day to day responsibility of a person. A parent is the de facto guardian, and in case of death of incapacity another person of legal age may be petitioned to be legal guardian.

One does not simply declare himself legal guardian, there is a shit load of paperwork, and you also become legally responsible of the person.

It must be nice to feel obligated to chime in in all these threads, talking your ass off...

This being said, host is pretty much the first and last word on who can play or not.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 10:51   #8
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I just love how each and everyone says "Im really mature for my age" and then cites his experience with his dad's .22 or counter-strike knowledge.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 11:14   #9
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hitman, remember me talking about you reading more and posting less?

Thanks Surebet.
and as Surebet said..legal guardian.. no older brother/sister/cousin,etc.


Ok.. as
1. Ontario host
2. Ontario player

what happens in other places is all nice and dandy, but where this player lives the hosts who run games publicly on these boards all appear to run the 18+ policy. we will be having a roundtable discussion tomorrow in fact in regards to game rules so no doubt the matter will be mentioned.


I don't have a hate on for -18. Though I get really freaking tired repeating the same thing over and over again.
1. legally responsible (18+).
2. Adults wanting away time from the kids.
3. Because I said so. (you tweens or whatever the current name for teenagers are these days should recognize that one...)

When a person becomes 18 I will gladly allow them to a game, and as long as they are safe, honest and responsible player they will be welcomed back. but until that time no.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 12:13   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danke View Post
Here's the problem, I come on my info in somewhat of a parallel path when minors injure themselves while performing risky activities.

As it's been put to me, parents cannot act for their children in legal matters such as a lawsuit. There is a risk that if you attempt to settle before the child reaches the age of majority they could upon reaching legal adult status choose to sue again for further damages if it could be shown that the parents hadn't acted in their best interests.

So lets say a minor is sponsored into a game by an older relative in good standing. The minor breaks a leg or looses an eye. Years later as this gnaws away at them till they decide it's time for a payout. At that point anyone who organized or sponsored an event or was even on the ground that day will be in the lawyers gunsights.

There's 50 year olds who act like spoiled brats so I'm told but since they're of legal age they can do what they want. If you haven't reached legal age then your options are limited.
As much as that's understandable, in this case it's pretty much out the window. We've both taken some pretty bad knocks here and there, and we wear our scars with pride. Injury is an assumed risk. Lawsuits are out. They're disgraceful. If you were dumb enough to hurt yourself, it's your own damn fault. But again, an understandable concern.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 12:14   #11
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Originally Posted by ChiefInTrees View Post
I just love how each and everyone says "Im really mature for my age" and then cites his experience with his dad's .22 or counter-strike knowledge.
What about 100+ rounds with a 12-guage? (He's got me with the .22, I'll admit. but I usually win when we do clays )

Thanks for the wise words of wisdom. I wasn't sure about legal guardian definition, so thanks for clearing that up. And I guess I'll wait till he's 16, then drag him and dad along to 16+Guardian OK'd events. For now we'll keep playing up north. BTW, there is no rule against my doing small games in secluded northern locations and letting him play, is there?
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Raug, draugi, kā ī kanna mirdz, kā puto alutiņ? Dievs zin, cik ilgi līksmo sirds, lai baudām drīz!

Last edited by The Lettonian; January 25th, 2008 at 12:20.. Reason: Realized three posts in a row two too many.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 12:28   #12
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Originally Posted by FNG_13 View Post
What about 100+ rounds with a 12-guage? (He's got me with the .22, I'll admit. but I usually win when we do clays )

Thanks for the wise words of wisdom. I wasn't sure about legal guardian definition, so thanks for clearing that up. And I guess I'll wait till he's 16, then drag him and dad along to 16+Guardian OK'd events. For now we'll keep playing up north. BTW, there is no rule against my doing small games in secluded northern locations and letting him play, is there?
If you're playing on your own property, all good. You do what you want on your own land. If you're on someone else's land, get permission. Written permission is a good idea. In any case, make sure everyone around knows what you are doing, so as to avoid any accidents with passer by's who could get in your lines of fire or mistake your airsoft guns for real guns.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 14:06   #13
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As much as that's understandable, in this case it's pretty much out the window. We've both taken some pretty bad knocks here and there, and we wear our scars with pride. Injury is an assumed risk. Lawsuits are out. They're disgraceful. If you were dumb enough to hurt yourself, it's your own damn fault. But again, an understandable concern.
Everyone loves to belive things like this but unfortunately you can't predict what life brings. Concentrate on making the right choices for your self to set a standard and then when he's reached the age where he can use you as an example to make his own choices they'll be the right ones also.
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Old January 25th, 2008, 14:50   #14
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You are wrong.
Mr. Hitman? Wrong!? NEVER! I'd trust him on the subject of ages and playing airsoft as he's been trying to get around them for a long time!
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Old January 25th, 2008, 17:26   #15
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Originally Posted by Danke View Post
Everyone loves to belive things like this but unfortunately you can't predict what life brings. Concentrate on making the right choices for your self to set a standard and then when he's reached the age where he can use you as an example to make his own choices they'll be the right ones also.
That's the plan
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