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Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:43   #541
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Originally Posted by Drache View Post
Just because he's one of a few airsoft retailers in the country does NOT give him a license to keep money that doesn't belong to him. $30 from me, another $30 from 9 other people and then it's $300 total. Is that still ok because he's an airsoft retailer? Ok how about 50 people at $30, now it's $1500.

I really would like you to think about that for a minute.
Drache.. you aren't getting my point i'm not telling you to suck it up, I'm saying that all this publicity is not improving the airsoft community in any way. If I were you, I would want my $30 back as well, but keep it to the PMs. Please, this situation is really not good for the health of canadian airsoft.

and I don't think he's ripped off 9 other people... this situation apparently only happened once up to this point...*cough*
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:45   #542
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Originally Posted by Cheesevillage View Post
Limited supply should not cause an instant double standard between buying airsoft and buying anything else.
Unfortunately, the nature of airsoft retailing in Canada is exactly that. OK to import, not OK to sell, but we may or may not shut you down at any time (may is more likely than may not).

While I agree that all businesses should be considered as equal when it comes to customer service, airsoft is one of those extremely rare exceptions.

Should a retailer offer the best in customer service? Yes, they should.

However......

Retailers incur losses during seizures. Retailers have to deal with shipping regulations, CBSA regulations, CFC regulations as well as consumers wanting the best product for the cheapest price. Then, they want it shipped the fastest way for the cheapest rate. If it's broken when it arrives, well, figure out how it goes from there.

If I was retailing in Canada, I would focus only on 1 product line. Not several with multiple items from each.

1) Each gun gets inspected for damage and tested prior to shipment. If it arrives damaged, make a claim. If it dies after 200 rounds, too bad. Customer fixes it.

2) No warranties whatsoever. You'd be surprised how many problems this solves when people know that the item they special ordered or bought comes with the same warranty that the retailer gets, exactly jack shit. It breaks, you fix it.

3) No multiples of the same item, with slightly different variations. Like ARs with collapsible and solid stocks, RIS and non-RIS versions, CQB and M4 length. Sell a base gun, and consumer alters it as they desire. This eliminates confusion at both ends.

4) No refunds. Exchange only.

5) No cheap guns. This is just a problem, especially if you're a nice guy and try to fix a problem from halfway across the country, all for a $300 gun that sells for $70 in Hong Kong. A no-brainer there.

6) Limit sales to 2 per day MAX. This will help to keep shipping and ordering straight. If people know they have to wait in queue just to order, they won't be as impatient when it comes time to shipping the item out.

7) Everey item shipped needs to be accompanied with a PM or e-mail containing the tracking number. Whether it's useless to track via Canada Post or not, it's a sign of being on top of things and keeping communication lines open with your customer.

8) No promises on times for arrival of product or shipping. Customer pays for product when it arrives (but a deposit is acceptable), and is kept in the loop at least once per week, even if new info is not available. Items can and will be held by the CBSA indefinately, license or not.

I think this would alleviate alot of problems for everyone, and re-train consumers on the way airsoft retailing is. It's not like shopping for a computer or a TV, it really isn't.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:56   #543
Drache
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Originally Posted by Skladfin View Post
Drache.. you aren't getting my point i'm not telling you to suck it up, I'm saying that all this publicity is not improving the airsoft community in any way. If I were you, I would want my $30 back as well, but keep it to the PMs. Please, this situation is really not good for the health of canadian airsoft.

and I don't think he's ripped off 9 other people... this situation apparently only happened once up to this point...*cough*
First off I never SAID he's done this to anyone else, that was to get a point across. And obviously you haven't read past the first post because you would have read many times that this was kept into PM's until he refused to refund my money. At that point I told him Id post it in the open and he gave me the ok to do it. This is exactly what the admins have said to do before if you have a problem with a seller. I don't know how many more times I have to post that.....
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 02:57   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesevillage View Post
Limited supply should not cause an instant double standard between buying airsoft and buying anything else.

Thank you for posting this, Drache.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 03:11   #545
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... I've had nothing but great experiences with shootsoft... but I must say..

The prices on shipping are worse than some chinese Ebay sellers.

You can ship a gun express post for 25-30 dollars, charging 40 dollars to regular post is absurd... let alone charging another 30 ontop of the 40 for express.

For 70 dollars you could get it shipped next-day priority.

Not to mention shootsoft is a buisness, and they have access to the Venture One Buisness plan that lets them ship things for much cheaper.

Aside from the shipping costs, I've had nothing but positive experiences with shootsoft. They got me the VSR-10 I wanted, and it arrived within the 20 days like they said.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 04:27   #546
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just to let everyone know i WOULD but from marksman,legros,mopic,viper,and any of the other retailers that i cant think of... all great sellers!!! shit happens.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 04:29   #547
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just to let everyone know i WOULD but from marksman,legros,mopic,viper,and any of the other retailers that i cant think of... all great sellers!!! shit happens.
Exactly.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 12:39   #548
Drache
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Originally Posted by arman View Post
just to let everyone know i WOULD but from marksman,legros,mopic,viper,and any of the other retailers that i cant think of... all great sellers!!! shit happens.
I would have done business with LeGros again many times if he hadn't kept money that didn't belong to him.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 12:44   #549
Brian McIlmoyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drache View Post
First off I never SAID he's done this to anyone else, that was to get a point across. And obviously you haven't read past the first post because you would have read many times that this was kept into PM's until he refused to refund my money. At that point I told him Id post it in the open and he gave me the ok to do it. This is exactly what the admins have said to do before if you have a problem with a seller. I don't know how many more times I have to post that.....
Its no problem.. you feel fine about it.. so no issue..

all I know is if I was another seller on this site reading this... I would not consider doing business with you. You are a "Problem Customer"

Posts like this can cut 2 ways... Sure you have an issue over $30, Fine..

If your first go to is " I will post to the world that you ripped me off if you don't give me my $30" The undercurrent there is ... "give me my money or I will hurt you"

Which is likely not the best place to start in a negotiation... people will get their backs up... and some will simply dig in and not budge. Which seems to be where you are now.

The last position of the seller was "don't accept delivery of the gun I don't want to sell to you.. I will give you back all your money and we will walk away.

your reply was not "fair enough" it was "Screw you I'm going public"

It is your right to take whatever action you choose.. its a free country.. but you have to accept the ramifications of those actions.

In this case.. I expect it is one less retailer that will do business with you..
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 12:47   #550
Drache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
Its no problem.. you feel fine about it.. so no issue..

all I know is if I was another seller on this site reading this... I would not consider doing business with you. You are a "Problem Customer"

Posts like this can cut 2 ways... Sure you have an issue over $30, Fine..

If your first go to is " I will post to the world that you ripped me off if you don't give me my $30" The undercurrent there is ... "give me my money or I will hurt you"

Which is likely not the best place to start in a negotiation... people will get their backs up... and some will simply dig in and not budge. Which seems to be where you are now.

The last position of the seller was "don't accept delivery of the gun I don't want to sell to you.. I will give you back all your money and we will walk away.

your reply was not "fair enough" it was "Screw you I'm going public"

It is your right to take whatever action you choose.. its a free country.. but you have to accept the ramifications of those actions.

In this case.. I expect it is one less retailer that will do business with you..
Brian he didn't offer me a "dont accept the gun and get a full refund" until after I told him I would post this publicaly. And Brian I didn't say give me my money back or else. I asked for the refund and he sent me that rude PM. I then replied that I was sorry but I am going to have to post this publicaly. Maybe you should learn to read before making me out to be an asshole who only wants money stolen from him.

Besides, why would I return the gun once it FINALLY reached my door after a month and only get refunded the price of the gun minus all shipping costs? I'd be out even MORE money.

ONCE AGAIN PEOPLE:

There is allot of discussion about how this is just bad luck/timing, miscommunication, etc so I am posting this to clear things up! Im not mad about the gun being shipped late, I am mad that LeGROS charged my $70 to ship this gun Xpresspost, then proceeded to ship it Regular Post (which he only charges $40). When I asked for a refund on the extra shipping I paid he pretty much told me a big "F'off" on ever getting a refund on my shipping

Last edited by Drache; June 2nd, 2008 at 12:52..
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 12:57   #551
vatek
 
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My 2 cents on this...

Gun problems aside, Drache paid $70 for Xpresspost shipping, and instead had his item shipped regular post. There is no reason whatsoever to not refund the difference in shipping costs. Shootsoft made a mistake, and Drache should not be forced to pay for it.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 13:00   #552
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Originally Posted by vatek View Post
My 2 cents on this...

Gun problems aside, Drache paid $70 for Xpresspost shipping, and instead had his item shipped regular post. There is no reason whatsoever to not refund the difference in shipping costs. Shootsoft made a mistake, and Drache should not be forced to pay for it.
Yea, that's what I got from this too. It's other people posting in here who have blown this issue way out of proportion.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 13:02   #553
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Nothing but good experiences with shootsoft and Christian from me! He found me the exact gun I wanted and his price was a full $60 dollars shipped UNDER the price of what other retailers had quoted me NOT shipped!!
Great guy to deal with. Always had fast PMs and very reasonable!

I say +1 for LeGROS and Shootsoft!
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 13:07   #554
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Originally Posted by Cheesevillage View Post
Limited supply should not cause an instant double standard between buying airsoft and buying anything else.

Thank you for posting this, Drache.
Bingo. Give this man a cookie.

Now, I'm not necessarily commenting on Shootsoft here, as I haven't personally dealt with them. This is more of a general comment regarding all retailers compared to other businesses.

I seem to see this all the time when it comes to airsoft guns. People post of a legitimate bad experience with a retailer, and here come the flocks of people coming to the retailer's defense, blindly kissing their asses and stating how these people have lives, etc and we shouldn't be so hard on them because they're slow to respond, deliver, deliver incorrect products, ass-rape people on shipping charges then ship via the slowest, cheapest means possible. However, if these same people were buying, say, an item on eBay, they paid their money, and didn't get anything from the seller for weeks on end, they'd be fuming.

Business is business. I don't care if someone is selling clothes, electronics, cars, bikes, airsoft, or drugs. Retailers are in the business for one thing - MONEY. They are not out there doing us a favour. Limited supply of a product should not give the seller a right to screw people over, talk down to them, take advantage of them, etc. All you bandwagon defenders are doing is promoting an atmosphere of complacency, where retailers feel that because of either a reputation they've built in the past of due to a limited supply of the product they're selling that they can be lax and careless and get away with it. What happens in a competitive market when sellers get like that? People stop dealing with them and they go out of business for providing shitty service. That should be the same standard that any business is held to.

Again, this is nothing against Shootsoft at all. I've got no issues with them. Just a general observation.
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Old June 2nd, 2008, 13:33   #555
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Originally Posted by Crunchmeister View Post
Bingo. Give this man a cookie.

Now, I'm not necessarily commenting on Shootsoft here, as I haven't personally dealt with them. This is more of a general comment regarding all retailers compared to other businesses.

I seem to see this all the time when it comes to airsoft guns. People post of a legitimate bad experience with a retailer, and here come the flocks of people coming to the retailer's defense, blindly kissing their asses and stating how these people have lives, etc and we shouldn't be so hard on them because they're slow to respond, deliver, deliver incorrect products, ass-rape people on shipping charges then ship via the slowest, cheapest means possible. However, if these same people were buying, say, an item on eBay, they paid their money, and didn't get anything from the seller for weeks on end, they'd be fuming.

Business is business. I don't care if someone is selling clothes, electronics, cars, bikes, airsoft, or drugs. Retailers are in the business for one thing - MONEY. They are not out there doing us a favour. Limited supply of a product should not give the seller a right to screw people over, talk down to them, take advantage of them, etc. All you bandwagon defenders are doing is promoting an atmosphere of complacency, where retailers feel that because of either a reputation they've built in the past of due to a limited supply of the product they're selling that they can be lax and careless and get away with it. What happens in a competitive market when sellers get like that? People stop dealing with them and they go out of business for providing shitty service. That should be the same standard that any business is held to.

Again, this is nothing against Shootsoft at all. I've got no issues with them. Just a general observation.
Exactly what i was thinking when reading some of thoses bandwagon defenders.
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