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Is it Illegal for a Minor to POSSESS an Airsoft Gun in Canada?

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Old January 5th, 2008, 21:35   #76
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Because that court INTERPRETED the laws. They decided that airsoft guns were replicas because they can, it's a Court.

What they decide then becomes binding on future decisions. That's how the legal system works.

Now, again, another interpretation comes from CBSA and CFC; that Replicas can be seen as Prohibited. If that is the way they see it, almost everyone here is screwed.

Even so, with all that stacking up, you really should wait until you are 18.

Remember that what happens to you depends on the Interpretation an Official makes. That Interpretation will vary greatly wether you are over or under 18.

Who will carry the blame will also vary greatly. I dont want to be near that kind of crap just so a teenager can get a realistic looking gun. Not when being mature enough to wait a year or two is all that's required.

Do you want your ass to depend on an interpretation? I dont.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 21:51   #77
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Originally Posted by Criminal Code 91(2)
Unauthorized possession of prohibited weapon or restricted weapon
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition, unless the person is the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.


Originally Posted by Criminal Code 92(2)
Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.


That is for licensing purposes only. You can license a replica, because they are prohibited.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:05   #78
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Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post

That is for licensing purposes only. You cannot license a replica, because they are prohibited.
and would that not make it just as illegal for you and I to own them if they were bought after dec.98 IE. ptw's. if so -18 or +18 still illegal and therefore 18+ should be enforced due to legal issues. -18's can and will endanger their family members and not just themelves at that point.

Last edited by Tex; January 5th, 2008 at 22:09..
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:07   #79
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:11   #80
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OK SOOO....It is generally agreed by everyone here, that NO ONE has an ABSOLUTE clear definintion as to what the legal age is or is not. SO therefore, would it just not be simple for the ASC admins to institute their own governing rule that you must be 18+. Otherwise, we will continue to go around and around in this argumentative circle until we are blue in the face or until our beloved sport is totally banned because we as a community cannot agree on something as simple as an 18+ rule to govern ourselves with.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:13   #81
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The reason we have them at all is the inability or unwillingness of the authorities to have all of our nice guns classified officially as replicas. Some guns might not be, but the vast majority would be. This mood could change at anytime, at the whim of the OIC, and there's little you or I or anyone else is going to do about it. This is why we have lived under a shadow for years, and will continue to do so.

Would my PTWs be cosnidered replicas, perhaps, even likely. The only saving grace is that they are the only electric guns designed and shipped from the manufacturer with the capacity to cause bodily injury and exceeed the 407 fps guideline that the RCMP has used to hammer home the "replica" designation in over a dozen CITT appeals.

I really don't understand why this is so difficult to understand? Are the FAQ's too vague? Are people not reading the thousands of threads on this forum?
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:17   #82
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What Illusion is trying to say is what you guys need to back up what you are saying and to have the proof. As mcguyver got from the Firearms Act, it does not state it. But why does Greylocks story say they are replica firearms which the court has said?
Who knows who's right. All of this is causing confusion. If it's not in the Act, it's legal.
if the court say's its illegal then its illegal.

Court rules airsoft = replica, and replica = illegal, so airsoft = illegal.

It's basically crap (regarding the price we get slapped with), but on the good side i don't have to play with kids.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:29   #83
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Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
That is for licensing purposes only. You can license a replica, because they are prohibited.
Not sure what you'd mean by that, pargraphs 88-98 is under Possession Offenses.

Quote:
The reason we have them at all is the inability or unwillingness of the authorities to have all of our nice guns classified officially as replicas.
The raids in the past and difficulty in importing airsoft guns would indicate that the general sentiment by the CBSA, CFC and RCMP is that airsoft guns are prohibited firearm. Where unwillingness exists is for the RCMP to do something about it.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:48   #84
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Sorry I'm still unclear.

CO2 Pellet guns that are widely sold fall under the replica umbrella or are they something different entirely.

What is the absolute best ruling/classification that this community is looking for?
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:58   #85
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Not sure what you'd mean by that, pargraphs 88-98 is under Possession Offenses.



The raids in the past and difficulty in importing airsoft guns would indicate that the general sentiment by the CBSA, CFC and RCMP is that airsoft guns are prohibited firearm. Where unwillingness exists is for the RCMP to do something about it.

Sorry. What I meant was you can't license a replica, because they are prohibited with no exceptions for possession, unlike prohibited firearms with exceptions for grandfathering.

The point that many don't seem to get and are confused by is if they are illegal, how come we have them, the authorities know we have them, yet nothing has been done? When someone gets an answer to this question, it will be too late. Live in the grey zone, where all the fashionable people are.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 22:59   #86
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Originally Posted by GOD View Post
CO2 Pellet guns that are widely sold fall under the replica umbrella or are they something different entirely.
As long as they do not meet the required muzzle energy/velocity figures to qualify as a real firearm AND closely resembles a real firearm, they are technically replica firearms. They haven't be hit quite as hard by CBSA and such because of an oversight, but that could be changing.

Quote:
What is the absolute best ruling/classification that this community is looking for?
Ruling is not particularly good for us, too easily changed considering how unfriendly the current language is to being interpreted in our favour. Same with classification, airsoft gun fits under replica firearm perfectly, we're better off leaving it there. Best possible thing? "Other than a replica firearm" be amended into CCC 99, 100, 101, 105, 106. Or replica firearm be added to a list excluding certain items as being prohibited devices. Or the definition of prohibited devices has line "(e) a replica firearm" removed. Etc, etc.
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Last edited by The Saint; January 5th, 2008 at 23:03..
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Old January 5th, 2008, 23:16   #87
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Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman View Post
What Illusion is trying to say is what you guys need to back up what you are saying and to have the proof. As mcguyver got from the Firearms Act, it does not state it. But why does Greylocks story say they are replica firearms which the court has said?
Who knows who's right. All of this is causing confusion. If it's not in the Act, it's legal.
Don't be an idiot. There are legions of things you can do that are illegal and are not covered in the Criminal Code of Canada, and its subservient documents, including the Firearms Act.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 23:31   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst39 View Post
OK SOOO....It is generally agreed by everyone here, that NO ONE has an ABSOLUTE clear definintion as to what the legal age is or is not. SO therefore, would it just not be simple for the ASC admins to institute their own governing rule that you must be 18+. Otherwise, we will continue to go around and around in this argumentative circle until we are blue in the face or until our beloved sport is totally banned because we as a community cannot agree on something as simple as an 18+ rule to govern ourselves with.
We are talking about if it is ILLEGAL, not if it is against some rule made by ASC. How could ASC tell people whether or not they can possess an airsoft gun.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 23:42   #89
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it is not really that confusing

I'm not going to quote law here... I've done so dozens of times...and this same topics come up again and again, Research some threads on the issue.. or even better READ THE LAW YOURSELF.

Airsoft guns as a class of items have not been defined as replicas... However in every case that I have researched that a charge was laid regarding the use of an airsoft gun in a crime ( and it happens lots ) the airsoft gun was found to meet the test of being a replica.

So its is pretty good policy to presume that items sold on the basis of being 1:1 duplicates of real guns .. are pretty likely to be considered a replica in a court of law.

For import purposes airsoft guns are classed as replicas... and you need special licenses to import them.

So... lets just all agree that airsoft guns are replica firearms..and stop arguing about something that is already decided by the court.


in 1998 replica firearms were proscribed under the Criminal code as "prohibited devices"

Underage possession of firearms is also proscribed... and limited to specific defined circumstances... nowhere in those circumstances does it say that underage people can posses prohibited devices. ( for those who demand quotes... right back at you... please quote where it says that they can.. then at least you will have to read the law to find its not there )

In this case the code is inclusive... stating under what exact circumstances an underage person may posses proscribed items.

If under the supervison of a legal possessor an underage person can have in their possesson any proscribed item. So sure.. kids can have airsoft guns in their possession as long as they are supervised by someone who can legally posses them ( anyone over 18 not under a firearms ban ) So one would presume that a 16 year old borrowing his 20 year old brothers airsoft gun and attending a game with him would be fine under the law.

So effectivlly kids can't own airsoft guns because they are proscribed.. but as long as there is an adult around to supervise them they can use them for approved purposes.


So now lets talk about people over 18...

Law is weird stuff ... it does not always seem logical...

For example... according to the law.. I can't buy a replica firearm today..

But if I have one.. I can legally posses one regardless of when I got it..

but how can this be?

here is how it works..

The ACT of transferring a replica is illegal ... this is illegal behavior.. and subject to penalty of proven. the object of the transfer the replica is not made to be an illegal object by being the subject of Illegal behavior.


The object of the transfer is not in its self illegal... but it is proscribed under the law so that it's status is clear.. That status is as a prohibited device.. that is legal to possess.

Look at it this way... I have a kitchen knife.. that there is no legal restriction to have... I stab my neighbor as a result of an argument... The act of stabbing is clearly an offense.. the knife.. still quite legal to have.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 23:57   #90
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We are talking about if it is ILLEGAL, not if it is against some rule made by ASC. How could ASC tell people whether or not they can possess an airsoft gun.

I realize we are talking about if it is illegal. And, we WILL continue to be talking about it because NO ONE has a clear understanding (myself included) of the legalities of issue at hand. We all have our own understanding of interpretations of the written law, that so much is clear. So, while we cannot determine if it is legal or illegal 100%, and again, some say yes, some say no, why does ASC not set its own rules for this community and this community only.

Ok guys let me have it....and yes I have read and reread all statutes and policies over and over....
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Last edited by Oberst39; January 6th, 2008 at 00:04.. Reason: spelling
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