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Old December 15th, 2007, 10:35   #31
Brian McIlmoyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridiculous132 View Post
I find that when you snipe, you often get people ignore the hits, either because they just don't realize they've been hit (my VSR-10 is not too powerful and I tend to shoot from quite far), or because they're cheaters. But most of the time people just don't realize. I'm not mad at them, but the next shot will be to a more exposed place. Not bare skin, just less kitted spot, like the leg. If I'm really far or the guy is really thick, I go for the goggles, and I've almost never hit people in the face, and even then it doesn't hurt too much because the BB has lost alot of it's velocity once there. Ok Aper might disagree on this one, I got him pretty bad once he he.

I find the goggle shot to be quite satisfying and very effective
This is an excellent example of when it just does not matter if they feel it.. if you can shoot someone... and they don't even realize they have been hit.. is that not the most satisfying outcome possible for a Sniper?

They're dead... and they don't even know it..

I think for snipers in particular.. the attitude has to be about personal success. Get the shot.. know you got the shot.. and remain unseen.

What difference if they don't go down? If you hit them once... you can do it again. and the next shot goes someplace meaty.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 11:38   #32
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This whole discussion reminds me of the advanced russian body armor at Boarder Wars . Having said that, I'd say there's a limit to how far one can adopt this mindset.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 15:52   #33
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This whole discussion reminds me of the advanced russian body armor at Boarder Wars . Having said that, I'd say there's a limit to how far one can adopt this mindset.
I disagree, you either adopt a mindset or you don't ... it should not be situational.. or provisional..
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Old December 15th, 2007, 16:01   #34
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This is from another forum with basically the same discussion:

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Originally Posted by macguyver View Post
I have noticed myself that biggest issue for on-field and on-forum whining is the old "not calling their hits" crap. I'll clue those in who are new, and maybe remind some of the more seasoned players, it's the oldest story in airsoft.

Many veteran players become complacent, and this is problem #1. They think that because they've owned the gun for XXXX years, that they know how it shoots, they know the trajectory of every BB, they know it's exact range, and they know exactly when to pull the trigger. So, if they shoot at you and you didn't call hit, well, you a cheatin' SOB.

I'm here to tell you that this just isn't the case. Nobody has that refined level of depth perception, nor can they even see their BB fly most of the time. No gun is that consistant (despite claims to the contrary), and nobody has that good of aim and nerves of steel to pull off the perfect shot all the time.

Now, problem #2 is newer players. Sometimes, they don't always understand the rules, which is fine, nobody's perfect. It's the job of the seasoned players to mentor the junior ones, at least a little bit, and help them along. Yelling or whining does not accomplish this. Sure, frustration can get the best of you sometimes, hell, it happens to me all the time. But who looks like an ass when a "situation" arises, the new guy or the old guy?

Problem #3 is gear. Guys aren't wearing t-shirts and SDS racks anymore. Now, guys are using plate carriers and full BDUs, and guns are getting better and engagement distances are longer. So, when BBs hit, they have less kinetic energy to impact the well-armoured player. So, who's at fault? The guy getting hit can't always tell, and the guy shooting should wait until the opponent is closer to ensure a clean hit. Don't bitch if he can't feel your shots. Hit him again.

I have a personal opinion on hits that seems to solve all these issues. Shoot the guy until you hear "HIT". But not empty a C-mag, several singles or a solid 5 round burst is sufficient.

Play no mercy rules whatsoever, then there is no issue. All shots are fair game, from head to toe, again there's no issues. If your head is all you present, expect it to get shot. And airsoft guns are not that accurate that you can aim away from a headshot at 200 feet and be guaranteed to avoid them.

Realize that you are not a perfect player, and nor is the other guy playing with you or against you, and be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.

Do these things, there won't be any issues in airsoft, and all will have fun.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 16:08   #35
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I think Brian has hit it on the head with this. At the end of the day, you can be satisfied in knowing that you took them out before they got you.

Unfortunately, lots of times when you hit people at range( especially with a single shot) they either don't feel it, think they felt or heard it then stop to listen for another, or don't call it because they don't see or hear where it came from.

The Key frustrating part for me is when you are in a milsim setting where a key opponent that you should have taken out (medic or leader) could very easily change the course of a battle or a game.

It's all part of the game. Just play fair and set a good example.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 17:17   #36
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excellent post Brian.

it all goes to honesty. If i know for sure i hit him and the victim doesn't feel it or pretends not to feel it. I'll shoot him again. because in the end I know i really did get him and thats what matters. If the victim doesn't admit it then thats his problem; so i try not to take the anger on yourself because thats what the victim wants...to see you pissed becuase he "evaded" your shot.

thats my philosophy when i dealt with opponents like this, and it does keep my frustration down.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 17:33   #37
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Here is where my head is at

I know that all of the people I play with or against are honorable, none of them are cheaters..

We shoot with guns firing a very light weight projectile.. it is easy to not perceive a hit. It is always from my perception not their fault that they did not feel it.

If I shoot someone and they do not react.. I assume .. every time that I either missed or they did not feel it.. I give them the benefit of the doubt every time.. and shoot them again.

At the end of the day the only thing we leave the field with is our honour..and I can only control my own behavior.. I am not the arbitor of any one else's honour. All I can do is ensure that I give my friends every opportunity to behave well by making sure that there is no doubt that the hit was good. I can only do this by shooting until I get a clear indication that the hit was good.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 18:59   #38
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I can only do this by shooting until I get a clear indication that the hit was good.
In other words, it's full-auto drum magazine madness on the poor bloke's goggles.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 19:21   #39
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Being an airsoft sniper and having guys either not feel the hits, of feel them, look down to where they got hit, then conitnue firing is fucking annoying, not just because of that, but because if you yell at the fucker to call him out you give your position away.

Since I'm one to count kills, any hit I get with my rifle is a kill for me. I decided long ago that I collect kills, I don't wait for the other guy to give me the kill. If I see my rounds hit him and he reacts to it, then ignores it, it's a kill for me. I've gotten two to three kills off one guy before, is why I started counting each hit as a kill. Not only does it prove you did your job (BB on target), but annoucing later publically:

"Hey man, great game, loved killing you those three times from 200ft away!"

"Huh, what do you mean?"

"I shot you three times, each one you felt the hit, looked down to your chest where the BB hit, then ignored it, so I got three kills on you. Thanks!"

Great way to casually point out someoone who plays dishonestly, by publically embarrassing them.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 19:27   #40
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I thought this would be good for the Calgary guys, so I put your post up their Brian. Excellent read.

Stalker....brilliant, absolutely brilliant....that's exactly what I plan on doing now...man that will be fun.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 19:32   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I know that all of the people I play with or against are honorable, none of them are cheaters..
Erm, you were at Border Wars, weren't you?
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Old December 15th, 2007, 19:38   #42
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soft tissue + .28's = pain. Its a solution thats worked well for me.

Other than that, well said Brian. In a one-on-one that is a good philosophy to adopt. If you're a doormat or perhaps a sub.


/RANT START
Unfortunately there are instances where you have two or more teams going at it and you have one group exercising that philosophy and the other doesn't and doesn't call hits, and the game collapses because strategic and tactical objectives are lost to playing zen footsy with a bulletproof asshole. And whats worse than one bulletproof asshole is a team of bulletproof assholes. I've seen many strategies to deal with it, but my favorite is to just let Claymore loose on them. Its very satisfying watching a 250lb Scotsman drop his AK, and walk through a hail of fire and grab some guy by the scruff of the neck in order to gain his attention for some one on one counselling. It usually solves the problem fairly quickly. I believe making examples of cheaters and publically HUMILIATING THEM is a good place to start, rather than to condone their behaviour by passively tolerating it. I've said it many times before and I will say it here. TOLERATION IS A FORM OF CONSENT!

This does not mean I presume that if I shoot in someone's direction I will automatically hit them. But after 5 years of this game, when I have to unload a highcap on someone and they still don't call out, I won't tolerate that and I promise to be loud, rude, obnoxious and will do my best to spoil that person's day, because he's spoiling mine. Conservatively speaking, I think I spend between BBs, batteries, gas, game fee, etc, somewhere near the $100 per game mark (amortize out your equipment costs too) and when some asshole deprives me of my pastime because he decides to turn on GOD MODE, I believe that person is spending MY money on something I did not pay for. He paid to be part of a simulation that we all agreed to, and then he chooses to break that simulation and ruin my enjoyment - I didn't sign up for that. That person has no place at a milsim airsoft event.
/RANT END

My 0.02 cents
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Old December 15th, 2007, 19:49   #43
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Old December 15th, 2007, 20:40   #44
Brian McIlmoyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
soft tissue + .28's = pain. Its a solution thats worked well for me.

Other than that, well said Brian. In a one-on-one that is a good philosophy to adopt. If you're a doormat or perhaps a sub.


/RANT START
Unfortunately there are instances where you have two or more teams going at it and you have one group exercising that philosophy and the other doesn't and doesn't call hits, and the game collapses because strategic and tactical objectives are lost to playing zen footsy with a bulletproof asshole. And whats worse than one bulletproof asshole is a team of bulletproof assholes. I've seen many strategies to deal with it, but my favorite is to just let Claymore loose on them. Its very satisfying watching a 250lb Scotsman drop his AK, and walk through a hail of fire and grab some guy by the scruff of the neck in order to gain his attention for some one on one counselling. It usually solves the problem fairly quickly. I believe making examples of cheaters and publically HUMILIATING THEM is a good place to start, rather than to condone their behaviour by passively tolerating it. I've said it many times before and I will say it here. TOLERATION IS A FORM OF CONSENT!

This does not mean I presume that if I shoot in someone's direction I will automatically hit them. But after 5 years of this game, when I have to unload a highcap on someone and they still don't call out, I won't tolerate that and I promise to be loud, rude, obnoxious and will do my best to spoil that person's day, because he's spoiling mine. Conservatively speaking, I think I spend between BBs, batteries, gas, game fee, etc, somewhere near the $100 per game mark (amortize out your equipment costs too) and when some asshole deprives me of my pastime because he decides to turn on GOD MODE, I believe that person is spending MY money on something I did not pay for. He paid to be part of a simulation that we all agreed to, and then he chooses to break that simulation and ruin my enjoyment - I didn't sign up for that. That person has no place at a milsim airsoft event.
/RANT END

My 0.02 cents
Blantant ignoring of hits is an abberation that has to be dealt with.. there is no room in any polite society for people who ignore the rules..

I am talking about not flying off the handle over what could very well be an honest mistake.. There is no need to give the benefit of the doubt.. when doubt is absent.. Fortunatly this is rare..
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Old December 15th, 2007, 21:14   #45
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That guy should have played at Sniper Hunt II last year at Zone 27, I was handing out lots of tampons to the Nordistan guys (including tossing one into their respawn area) with "In case of Sudistan rapage" written in marker on them. Made HellRanger shit himself laughing................... I miss the guy.
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