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Old December 8th, 2007, 17:18   #16
swatt13
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i think more platforms would help systema's business. i understand what your sayin mac, even though it may be the best gun out there if it looks like fuck, i would field it, even more important is how it feels to you, akward, bulky ect... like if ptw's only came in ak... i wouldnt be buying a ptw (HA! take that ak lovers lol).
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a Systema PTW is like KD, where the noodles are plated in gold and the cheese sauce is actually a pool of hot naked women.

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Old December 8th, 2007, 17:21   #17
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Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
You can't go to Shot Show unless you are an industry insider (manufacturer, distributor or retailer). It's not open to the public, and even those on the inside are not allowed to take pictures of all the things shown there.

"IF" it becomes available, good luck getting one anytime soon.

And, you are not buying an MP5, but the PTW platform. Currently, it only exists in the form of an AR. If you didn't buy one because you don't like an AR, don't buy the MP5. You buy the platform, not the gun, and the PTW is not for you. These aren't fashionable "guns of the week" and require a committment more serious than you can possibly imagine
oh la, i dunno that. but whatever, thx for mention that

well, i get what you are saying, but when you want something, it just go crazy sometimes.. and saving up 2-3 month for a PTW seems more valueable and satisfiable for me than any others, but it's personal preference, you know.

and yes i nearly have the cash now, next next pay will get enough for a M4A1 MAX and accersories. but i am kind of want to wait to feb and see what happens

i am getting a PTW anyway
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Old December 8th, 2007, 18:31   #18
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I'll be attending the Shot Show 2008. rumor is that Systema is going to debut both the MP5 and the SuperMAX (M170) guns at the show. I'll report back after the show with any findings.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 18:44   #19
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I gotta agree with Dracheous.

I don't see how a gun, that's main selling point is it operates amazingly out of a box, needs more commitment and dedication than other guns.

I spent months shopping around for my AK47 - buying parts here and there, making parts when I had too, (almost losing fingers in the process), and in the end I have a full steel, full wood, TM Based AK47 with an adequately upgraded mechbox, for only ~$700.

I would hope that the only commitment for a PTW is enough free cash, because with something costing nearly 5 times what's adequate, I would expect NOT to spend hours tweaking and working on my gun; other than some simple maintenance once in a while.

Having a PTW doesn't make anyone a super-player. With enough skill and knowledge you can be a super player with any gun. I mean, look at the guys who end up with 9+ knife kills at the end of the day, they didn't even need a gun.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 19:51   #20
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If systema made an M249 para I'd sell my ramcharger in a heartbeat...
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i never understood why the oil refinery had a brothel... i never see them at the refineries i work at this is bull!
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Old December 8th, 2007, 19:57   #21
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I'll be attending the Shot Show 2008. rumor is that Systema is going to debut both the MP5 and the SuperMAX (M170) guns at the show. I'll report back after the show with any findings.
great, big thx in advance !
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Old December 8th, 2007, 20:34   #22
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Originally Posted by WarChild7 View Post
I'll be attending the Shot Show 2008. rumor is that Systema is going to debut both the MP5 and the SuperMAX (M170) guns at the show. I'll report back after the show with any findings.
SuperMAX any relation to the 2008 models (aka MAX2 or gen5)?
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Old December 8th, 2007, 20:43   #23
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Anyone else notice that picture says copyright 2004! That was almost 4 damn years ago! I doubt this thing will ever be released. "coming soon" my ass

But if Systema ever did make an MP5, I'd buy one. I wouldn't mind seeing a full systema line up. You know, an AK, MP5, I'd love a UMP, always wanted one of those.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 20:47   #24
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I'm making the 'commitment' soon... Man this is gonna hit the wallet hard.

Anyone want to help me feed for the next month(s)^^
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Old December 8th, 2007, 20:53   #25
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I'm making the 'commitment' soon... Man this is gonna hit the wallet hard.

Anyone want to help me feed for the next month(s)^^
Buy some clothes from value village, and just go to the soup kitchen.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 20:54   #26
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I don't think you guys get it. In fact, I'm certain of it.

Systema's selling feature is not it's out-of-the-box performance. Its the whole platform. The performance is a bonus.

Systema does NOT make you a better player. In fact, it makes you a worse player by lulling you into a sense of complacency due to the extreme performance of the gun. It makes you reliant on it, and you tend to become lazy. You start to think things like "Gee, I can hit that guy from here. No need to risk getting hit myself".

People who would only buy a PTW because it's an MP5 are looking to buy a gun. They aren't interested in it because of it's platform. If they were, they would already own the M4 version with no reservations. Its not a matter of buying a gun because you like the model, or not buying it because you don't like the model.

If you buy one, can you afford to fix it of it breaks? Could you diagnose a problem? Do you know the engineering principles behind the gun and tailor your ammo and maintenance accordingly? I doubt it.

The absurd rebuttals come from those who don't own them, and know very little about them. Did anyone realize the picture in the first post is from 2004? I'm betting not, and who's to say if the newly-released PTW will look anything like the model pictured.

I've owned PTWs for longer than most people knew they even existed, so I think I know what I'm talking about here.
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Originally Posted by Dracheous View Post
This has got to be the most absurd statement I think I have ever read on ASC, and I mean ever, including when Crab was around!

There are many people that play this game that do not like AR's, and when SystemA, comes out with a PTW version of the weapon they prefer I am sure those people would like to jump at such a prospect. Also I find it insulting, that you would dare state that any other device does not require the same amount of "dedication" as a PTW which is UTTER bullshit. Any "lesser" AEG will wear down and have parts break, requiring such person to have to take time and money to invest into their device to get it working again. With the Max versions out, what I'm told, BY YOU ((and other players that own PTW I've talked to)) and all your ravings about these devices is all you gotta do is shell out for it, drop lube here and there into it and change out an O-ring in the cylinder every once and a while.
Do you even realize who buys PTWs and what they buy? I do, because I get PM'd about several times each and every day. They are first-time gun owners, or they are veteran players tired of other guns. Some buy the guns factory assembled, and nearly all buy kits. And those kits are the worst thing Systema EVER did. People have problems of all kinds, from minor to severe to catastrophic. And all cost money, big money to fix. And most owners have no idea how to fix them, or where to get parts, or what parts to get. You can't just go to Redwolf or Jugglez and order parts.

Most players who want a PTW are going to get:

A) what they can afford or:

B) what is available.

And in nearly all occasions, it's the damn kits. If you knew how many PMs I get on here and other forums about those kits, I assure you, you'd never buy one. And guys do, even after I've given them the advice not to get it, and admit "I know, but I couldn't wait" or "I just had to get it". These are not the guys who take the committment of what is likely to come seriously. Many guys have to se4ll of nearly everything they own just to afford them. I know, I did. But will they have the resources to have a back-up gun should theirs go down, and still be able to afford to play and spend maybe $600-$800 on new electronics and a new motor if necessary?

You fail to see why I call it a committment. When a Classic Army gun breaks, parts are easy to find, cheap and available. Not so for a PTW, but stioll everyone wants to get on the SCK-bandwagon because they believe they can get away cheaper and easier. Not so at all my friend.

So, if you have some inside knowledge into the PTWs that I don't have, let's hear it!!
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Last edited by mcguyver; December 8th, 2007 at 21:10..
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Old December 8th, 2007, 21:05   #27
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Reason i'm buying a PTW:

#1 I want performance and reliability.

#2 I love AR's.

#3 PTW = Cool
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Old December 8th, 2007, 21:16   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
Systema does NOT make you a better player. In fact, it makes you a worse player by lulling you into a sense of complacency due to the extreme performance of the gun. It makes you reliant on it, and you tend to become lazy. You start to think things like "Gee, I can hit that guy from here. No need to risk getting hit myself".
Agreed.

As much as I believe systema is beautiful platform, its not for me.
Its not my style, in my eyes, during an airsoft game, the BB only has to touch the opponent, not rip through them or even leave a welt.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 21:42   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
Think $4000+ per gun, plus whatever accessories you want to put on it. Then be prepared to spend a hundred or more just trying BBs until you get the weight and strength to make the gun perform as it should.

And, the MP5 will likely be much more expensive than what you currently see for a PTW in Canada. The '08 line is going to increase significantly in January, and the MP5 won't be public until long after that. So guess what it will cost?

$3000 for the base gun will not be unrealistic at this point. And mags will be well over $100 each, as well as batteries, etc.

You might be able to "imagine alot", but can your credit card float it? That's another issue.


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Quote:
Think $4000+ per gun, plus whatever accessories you want to put on it. Then be prepared to spend a hundred or more just trying BBs until you get the weight and strength to make the gun perform as it should.
I am well beyond that... getting a PTW is an investment for something that you like to do during busy life schedule and you just need to get away...

An MP5, yes I will wait for a year or so before getting one, also if they do decide on the production of a Masada, I would wait for a year of so...come to thing about it, maybe a second generation would be best from both for my case...

Last edited by leblanc74; December 8th, 2007 at 21:46..
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Old December 8th, 2007, 21:48   #30
Dracheous
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Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
I don't think you guys get it. In fact, I'm certain of it.

Systema's selling feature is not it's out-of-the-box performance. Its the whole platform. The performance is a bonus.
Bonus? $2500 and performance is the bonus? I think that you've forgotten that you are comparing a device designed for military and law enforcement personnel training like I've already stated to a god damned toy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
Do you even realize who buys PTWs and what they buy? I do, because I get PM'd about several times each and every day. They are first-time gun owners, or they are veteran players tired of other guns. Some buy the guns factory assembled, and nearly all buy kits. And those kits are the worst thing Systema EVER did. People have problems of all kinds, from minor to severe to catastrophic. And all cost money, big money to fix. And most owners have no idea how to fix them, or where to get parts, or what parts to get. You can't just go to Redwolf or Jugglez and order parts.


So, if you have some inside knowledge into the PTWs that I don't have, let's hear it!!
Yes, me. However I do not go wavering it around that people who buy PTW buy it cause its PTW. Its an airsoft device that I get to use in shooting my friends on the weekend.

You failed to understand that I find your statement "Those who would not buy a PTW because it was an AR should not buy the MP5." What the fuck man, people buy PTW for its performance. Are YOU going to tell me right now fair and honest that if the PTW shot 25 feet and weak as an EBB that you would spend $2500 on it? NO! You are paying $2500 for THEE most accurate ((scale)), reliable and performing AEG on the market. Any other answer is is bullshit or just from a retarded person. Would you pay $250,000 for a Civic? Not if it wasn't gold plated and did 0 to light-speed in 6 flat.


And if someone likes an MP5 over an AR, they must now LOVE the AR just to own the MP5 PTW? HORSE... SHIT!


And as for "OOOh these things use parts that are hard to get!" Well then, I must be dedicated if I own WA or WE? Those are hard to get parts for, can't always go hit up Redwolf for them now can ya. Maruzen's pretty hard to get parts for right now pending your platform, a lot of the upgraded parts are being discontinued, will sure be hard to get them.



Your also part of the issue on this "lulling", but its not only PTW's that do that, Star M60's can do it too, and thats a funny sight 6ft 4 asian doing the Rambo seen top of a hill only to look at his chest, shot by a "lesser" TM M14. No one here on ASC is buying these guns for tactical training purposes as military or LE personnel ((Yes there are AF and LE members here, but they have issued shit they get to play with and train)), its all for the very fun game/sport/hobby/picnic/clubwar/weekendwarrior/hoedown event of airsoft.
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