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Old January 22nd, 2008, 22:16   #61
rustysdream
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Matt,

Why? I think public awareness is just as important as good contact with the police.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 22:21   #62
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The police has no reason to participate in ASC's private age verification and doing so places them in the uncomfortable position of facilitating the nominally illegal trade in replica firearm.

As for public awareness, we really don't want the general public to be "aware" of us, since they're more likely to start scapegoating airsoft for a host of problems we have no part in, in addition to calling attention on our grey-to-black legal situation.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 22:28   #63
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The police has no reason to participate in ASC's private age verification and doing so places them in the uncomfortable position of facilitating the nominally illegal trade in replica firearm.

As for public awareness, we really don't want the general public to be "aware" of us, since they're more likely to start scapegoating airsoft for a host of problems we have no part in, in addition to calling attention on our grey-to-black legal situation.
Thank you, said everything for me.
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It will help to not get you flamed here, and will help you get a job that doesn't require the repeated use of the phrase "Would you like fries with that?"
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 22:37   #64
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Hmmm... That makes me think twice...
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 22:48   #65
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 23:33   #66
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rusty - I don't really think you're aware of the legal situations surrounding airsoft. Read the link below on the legality of airsoft. It will explain the 'grey area' that was referred to by others. http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23034

I'm fairly new to ASC, but I bothered reading these guides before posting. And I learned a lot that I didn't know. This community is not simply trying to keep guns out of the hands of minors, they're trying to protect the Canadian airsoft community at large. The age-verification process is a pain in the ass, and the wait can be frustrating. I'm 36, and it took me a while to get my verification process handled. But I waited it out and it's all good now.

Seriously though, if you're looking for airsoft guns for target shooting, I would strongly recommend that you take a look at one of the Canadian airsoft retailers and buy new. Seriously, for target shooting, a stock gun is more than enough. You're not going to really save much buying a stock gun from the classifieds over buying new from a retailer. Where you get great deals here is on upgraded, accessorized and customized gear built for airsoft games. If you don't plan on actually playing the game, then that's pointless for you.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 23:50   #67
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Originally Posted by rustysdream View Post
I think public awareness is just as important as good contact with the police.
Public awareness is important but only if the public sees it from your view. Since airsoft is in limbo at the moment, we don't need the extra attention of the media. All it takes is one airsoft-related story to knock it off the legal cliff.
These days there are too many soccer mom biaches who are too ignorant to see the fact that guns don't kill people. Since we are the minority, I think its best if we keep a low profile.

As for age verification, it is to weed out minors who will misuse replicas. It isn't 100% effective but it certainly helps...
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 00:11   #68
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Crunchmeister,

Thank you for your answer.
I am not as uninformed as some may think. I have been actively involved in shooting sports for 41 years. I have also read the informations you referred to before I made my first comment.
As to playing the game? I used to enjoy every opportunity to handle sporting arms but now I limit myself to target shooting with a bow and arrow by sitting backwards on a galloping horse.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 00:12   #69
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Crunchmeister,
As to playing the game? I used to enjoy every opportunity to handle sporting arms but now I limit myself to target shooting with a bow and arrow by sitting backwards on a galloping horse.
...err...was that a joke?
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 01:50   #70
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Originally Posted by rustysdream View Post
Crunchmeister,

Thank you for your answer.
I am not as uninformed as some may think. I have been actively involved in shooting sports for 41 years. I have also read the informations you referred to before I made my first comment.
As to playing the game? I used to enjoy every opportunity to handle sporting arms but now I limit myself to target shooting with a bow and arrow by sitting backwards on a galloping horse.
Well, there's a big difference between "sporting arms" in the sense of hunting and target shooting (either competitive or recreational) than playing airsoft. Airsoft is not about shooting. It's about wargaming and having all-out military simulations with airsoft guns. While marksmanship is certainly a crucial aspect of it, it's a very different sport than what you refer to. Being a good shot is only a very small part of this game.

Hopefully you can understand why as a community, we don't want to attract public or police scrutiny for what we do. Because of the nature of this sport, it quickly attracts very negative publicity from outcries that we're militants, glorifying gun violence, desinsitizing kids to gun violence, etc. It happened back in the day with paintball when it used to be very much like airsoft. Paintball had to change drastically in order to be allowed to continue. And it's turned into a joke now and geared at kids.

As it stands, the majority of the public out there really have no opinion on airsoft one way or another. Some know it exists and don't care, some don't know at all. However, it takes very little noise from the nay-sayers to demonize us and what we do and turn public opinion against us. As it stands, we have little attention on us and that's a good thing. While what we do is not illegal, the tools we use to do it with are illegal by some laws, and aren't by others. We are basically allowed to exist because of loopholes and vague areas in the law. It's a very fine balance, and it doesn't take much to upset that.

To attract attention to ourselves from the general public, particularly from dwellers in major urban centres where people live in constant fear of perceived gun violence (often overhyped by the media and special interest groups) is asking for trouble. They prefer eradication of what they perceive to be the problem (all guns, airsoft included) rather than the control of it. If this happens, we (the responsible airsoft gun owners who play the game) end up getting perceived as militant gun nuts from all the soccer moms and social do-gooders and end up paying for the problems of society that we have no part in by being forced to give up our guns and our sport.

And unfortunately, these urban dwellers are the majority of Canadians, or close to it. Even if just a a few small groups within this population of urbanites see us as a problem, you can bet they will lobby their local politicians law enforcement on all levels to put a stop to what we do. We just barely have a toehold in legality as it is. To draw too much attention to us and our sport is not a good thing. It's much too easy for legislators to just eliminate these loopholes we exist in than it is to rewrite existing laws to allow us - a very small minority of Canadians to continue with what we do. It's true that the 'squeaky wheel gets the grease'. And these small groups of individuals squeak just loud enough to the right politicians, then we're done

And of course, there's the police issue which is not a good thing to bring up. Airsoft is in a grey enough area that police don't hunt down and prosecute airsoft gun owners unless they use their airsoft guns for criminal purposes. They know we exist, and allow us to do so because we aren't a priority or a problem. They don't raid known airsoft events to seize guns, etc. Technically, they could, since airsoft guns are technically classified as replicas (by some laws, but not others), and replicas have been illegal to accquire (but not own) since Dec 1, 1998.

Unless one could prove that they've owned their guns prior to that date, then the police would have every right to seize them, and possibly lay charges. Whether or not the charges would stick and stand up in court or be thrown out and the guns returned is a gamble. But technically, the police COULD do that if there was enough public pressure put on them to do it.

When you know you COULD get bitten by an animal, it's usually best to avoid contact with that animal as much as possible. The same can be said about officially involving police and public scrutiny in any matters regarding airsoft.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:28   #71
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rustysdream it think your takeing it way out of context here.

we are trying to help with your question.
there is not reason to get upset.
the age thing is only for the used guns sales section on this websight.
it has nothing to do with you attending games and you don't need to be age verified to own a airsoft gun in cananda.
" you don't need a licence to own airsoft all you need is to be over 18 and prove it "
the airsoft comunity has been self policeing it's self form the start.
we just want to keep the gun's out of the hands of minors and this is one of the ways we do it. if we did not do this then any joe can come here say i am 18 and buy a gun bring it to shool get shot buy police and then our sport dies and no one can have a airsoft gun.

if you want to buy a airsoft gun someware off this websight throgh one of the candien retailers then buy all means go ahead.

the age thing only applys to this websight and that is all. it dose not apply to the sport as a whole or other retalers and how the sell there goods.

if you think that the prossess is stupid or you question it, that is your bissness but this is the way things are done here. we are not going to change it just for one person becuse he or she thinks it's stupid.
if you follow the rules then there is no problem.
if you don't then thats your bissness also we are not makeing you do so.
but if you want to see the sales section go see a local rep and be done with it.
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Last edited by happytit; January 23rd, 2008 at 10:34..
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:00   #72
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happytit,

I did not get upset until an "age verified admin" (let's just call him MORON) sent me to Legoland. I didn't even bother taking my turn to send him somewhere after that.
I don't know why some members don't understand that I have nothing against the rules and I'm perfectly fine with traveling to see a rep who would verify my age. (Actually, I just got an e-mail last night from a rep to make arrangement.)
Anyway, I have no problem with any part of your policies as long as I am being treated equally. But when someone jumps out of the bush and starts screaming and yelling like an insane, that doesn't help your community.

Last edited by rustysdream; January 23rd, 2008 at 11:29..
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:11   #73
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happytit,

I did not get upset until an "age verified admin" (let's just call him MORON) sent me to Legoland. I didn't even bother taking my turn to send him somewhere after that.
I don't know why some members don't understand that I have nothing against the rules and I'm perfectly fine with traveling to see a rep who would verify my age. (Actually, I just got an e-mail last night from a rep to make arrangement.)
Anyway, I have no problem with any part of your policies as long as I am being treated equally. But when someone jumps out of the bush and starts screaming and yelling like an insane, that doesn't help your community.

i have seen that before on this websight.
some mebers have the habbit of flaming new people who have general question such as yourself. i am sorry that some of the other mebers on this websight have no repsect for new mebers. i have seen this far too meany times. i myself try to help if i can answer the questions you have. so if thats all it is then i am here glad to answer questions you have and please igonore the people who are not so helpfull.

if you think that people are treating you wrong then PM one of the mods and they can try to help you out.

sorry about all the flaming and if i was a mod i would be doing a bit more to stop that.

p.s welcome to ASC and i hope after this little problem you enjoy the sport as much as i do.
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Last edited by happytit; January 23rd, 2008 at 11:13..
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:18   #74
rustysdream
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Crunchmeister,

A special Thank You for taking your time and explaining about your game and the rules.
As I said before, I am familiar with the air soft game. Especially, because my son in law used to be involved in it also.
I consider myself an outsider because I have never participated in a game but it doesn't mean that I should be treated by some as an enemy.

Last edited by rustysdream; January 23rd, 2008 at 11:54..
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 12:06   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustysdream View Post
But when someone jumps out of the bush and starts screaming and yelling like an insane, that doesn't help your community.
Yea, I know that feeling, it's especially annoying when someone says you threatened them. Kinda annoys you, doesn't it? Yea, me too.

Best of luck.
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