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Will Airsoft prices drop, our doller is on Par?

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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:16   #31
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If there was a retailer who sold airsoft guns for a price lower than the other retailers,they would get alot of buisness...trust me, my friends here want to get into airsoft BUT to them it is way to expensive and I wouldnt blame them.
Funny, my prices dropped to almost even with the US prices a few weeks ago.

Sales have not skyrocketted like you suggest they would.

Why can I not charge the exact same as US price even though our dollar is the same or more?

1) The bank charges money to convert money, hense you will find our dollar still doesn't buy 1 US dollar.

2) Shipping costs are huge. It cost $35 to send 35lb box to New York from California. It costs $100 to send that same box to Trenton Ontario. I'm already out $65 on every $1000 to $1300 shipment of gear compared to US
retailers.

3) Turnover. I still have stock that I bought months ago, and to sell it at the US prices I would loose money - however I have dropped the prices - why? because even though Canadian retailers like me try and stock huge amounts, there are still people who shop south of the border so I have to drop the prices to compete.



If your too poor to play airsoft, then the dollar exchange rate is not the problem.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:34   #32
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Lower prices make sense in a competative market.. like it was 2 years ago with 8 retailers all looking for our money... the only edge you have is to drop margin.. and make it up on volume... but if the volume is capped... by import restrictions... dropping margin... only reduces total revenue... thats just bad business....
Yes Tony Saprano, whatever you say...

Oh, and Farmboy I guess that I should of said , would get more buisness,But then again not very many people in Canada know what airsoft is...well atleast here in Newfoundland.Do you even sell airsoft guns ???

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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:43   #33
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Yes Tony Saprano, whatever you say...

???
Need I say more? someone who feels basic economics is graft... I cast pearls before swine.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:48   #34
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Cool, and I drink gin before vodka.

All im saying is Probejax, I support your friend!!Hopefully he goes ahead with his plan!
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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:51   #35
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It Doesnt matter if he had the gun for over a year. He is oviously not selling it anytime soon with the price he has on it. If there was a retailer who sold airsoft guns for a price lower than the other retailers,they would get alot of buisness...trust me, my friends here want to get into airsoft BUT to them it is way to expensive and I wouldnt blame them.
Of course it matters if he had the gun for a year and bought it at a different dollar rate. Very basic economics. He has had the capital tied up in the item for twelve months, and bought the gun for let's say 1.15 dollars. So if he dropped the price of the item to reflect the drop in the dollar (assuming he bought the item in US dollars not some other currency) he would increase his potential loss of profit on the item.

Why don't you try this one. Drive over to your local Porsche dealership and tell them you and some of your buddies want to race Porsches but can't afford it, would they mind dropping the prices. The purpose of a business is not to promote access to the sport, but to make a profit. You seem to have missed that point. Maybe there should be a welfare office that hands out airsoft guns to people who want to play but can't afford it.

Perhaps before you whine you should ask yourself, and tell us, what do you think the cost of the product is, shipping, duty, other overhead, and then add in something reasonable for the labour of the guy running the place, and then add it all up. Then explain what you think the airsoft (luxury LEISURE activity) ROI or ROE should be. Then if your numbers show you that the ROI or ROE kills that of other industries (say insurance or pharmaceuticals- but they're neccesities arn't they) then you can explain to us why the profit levels in this industry are unjust.

Until you can really do something like that, you are just another ill-informed name-calling, whiner.

And for the record Farm Boy is well versed in small business, importing and the airsoft industry. Care to tell us your amazing qualifications for your lazer-tight critique of Canadian Airsoft economics? (actually your comment about not many people knowing about airsoft in Newf. kind of undermines your lower prices/increase sales volume argument now doesn't it?)

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Old October 1st, 2007, 17:57   #36
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The only thing holding up gas prices is the government of canada. And the only thing holding up airsoft prices are the retailers trying to earn as mutch as they can. Im not blaming them we all want to make money. But right now is the time to make a butt load of cash. You buy allot of stock, sell it all cheap and reap in the dow!!!!
Actually oil prices flucuate all over the world, and have been going up consistently for many years, long before the oil even hits our borders.

Your comment about airsoft guns being just like other bb guns and that you could sell large volumes of them through an already established clothing store seems to miss out the history and regulation of these devices in Canada.

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Old October 1st, 2007, 19:54   #37
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They'll never drop unless someone else in Canada becomes an Airsoft Dealer and sells the guns for less. I hope that one guys friend starts an airsoft business because our airsoft prices really do need to change. I don't see or understand how someone can make you pay a whole 1000.00 CAD more for a Systema PTW. That's a huge pricechange.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 19:56   #38
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They'll never drop unless someone else in Canada becomes an Airsoft Dealer and sells the guns for less. I hope that one guys friend starts an airsoft business because our airsoft prices really do need to change. I don't see or understand how someone can make you pay a whole 1000.00 CAD more for a Systema PTW. That's a huge pricechange.
Because they can. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Old October 1st, 2007, 20:00   #39
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Originally Posted by Regan.S View Post
They'll never drop unless someone else in Canada becomes an Airsoft Dealer and sells the guns for less. I hope that one guys friend starts an airsoft business because our airsoft prices really do need to change. I don't see or understand how someone can make you pay a whole 1000.00 CAD more for a Systema PTW. That's a huge pricechange.
It's still not going to become American retailer price, you know. Maybe instead of 550, we're looking at 450, or 400. Which is like, a couple of shifts on minimum wage? Saves a fair bit of money, buit not exactly enough to start forcing the other retailers to bring down their prices signficiantly.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 20:21   #40
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ok... lets ignore market economics... and run on Faerie dust instead

Look... If you were selling guns.. and you knew you could sell all you could get for cost plus X Would you chose to sell for less? if the supply was limited?

all you are saying is... my work is worth less than the other guy...

so look at it this way...

You can sell 100 guns this year.. as that is all you can get.

You can sell them and make $100 each one... or you could sell them and make $50 each one..

you are 100% certain you can sell them all.. but you can't get more.

Answer truthfully would you rather walk away with $10000.00 in your pocket or $5000.00 for the same work?

Who benefits by the choice to sell for less? 100 strangers... while your family suffers. Who in their right mind would do such a thing?
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 02:39   #41
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Who in their right mind?

Why, the dozens of failed business owners that I've seen come and go through our business financing program. You know, the ones that "think" they know how to run a business and make a living. The ones that think all they need to do is hang a shingle on a shop and wait for the $$ to just roll right in. The ones who figure their time is only worth $3.25 an hour, because that's how they set up their pricepoints once the smoke clears.

/sarcasm off


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Old October 2nd, 2007, 05:08   #42
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Styrak

Look at the prices, there almost identical for both Asia and America. Wich means the Americans are getting there goods from the same place the Asian retailers do. shipping is allot cheaper from the stats to Canada then Asia to Canada, Jet fule is expensive.


ILLusion


Ok one thing you should know from dealing with Airsoft retailers is they can get bulk orders, so that restriction is most likly False.

Once you invest in something you wait untill it turns a profit. It becomes earning potential becuse you ivested your money into it. Your money sitting in your checking account is lost earning potential.

So inventory in a ware house or other storage facility is potential profit.
You have to sell to it get your investment back pluse more (Profit) to invest in other areas of your business, like a bigger storage facility or a store front or advertisment or an internet site.


More income means you pay more taxes but you still get more Take home. Its not like there is a tax braket that takes 70% of your money away.
To even get close to the highest tax bracket in Ontario you need to be making six digets. So the government holding prices on airsoft up becuse of taxes is bogus. You earn more you pay more but you still get more to keep.

Dude I know that for twenty dollers a month I can get heated storage that can hold allot of inventory. If your useing a ware house you must have inventory to fill it. If you dont your just investing money poorly. There are many cheap ways to store goods, especially nonperishable goods.

Im not complaining. Im just asking questions and looking for truthfull awnsers thats it. I would rather go without my hobbie like I have been doing, then pay for three of an item and only recieve one. That right there just isent enjoyable for someone who earns there money.


Manmaries

Dude comments like that arrent nessessary.




MadMax

Thats a great point MadMax. What was the outcome of there cases?



Skruface

Well noone is expecting the prices to drop right away. Of corse you have to make profit on your purchase. but as our doller has gone up ive seen airsoft prices do the same. That dosent make scense to me and allot of others.
The price of a glock 18c has gone up from $290 to over $300. How does that happen when our doller rises.

There is a Larger player base then you think. The fact that paintball was taken from being an underground sport and brought into the main stream should show you that there is great potential for airsoft as a main stream sport insted of an underground one. Ive seen over the years that many paintballers have switched to airsoft once they found out it existed.




Brian McIlmoyle


Well they are risking fines and imprisonment if they sell even one airsoft gun if they are illeagle. so the fact that they sell them means there ether willing to take the risk and are prooving that its leagle, or its leagel, so they can sell as many as they want.

And importing once again i have seen bulk orders so there must not be a restriction, otherwise those orders wouldent have been made and
successfully deliverd.




Farmboy

Do you sell Guns or gear? Becuse if you sell guns at American prices Let us know and your stock will be sold out in minutes.



Lawdog

Dude lowering the prices isent lowering the amount you get for your investment, its lowering your profit on the item. you still make profit
just not an insane 100% or more profit. If a gun costs $181 dollers and your charged $500 doller Pluse shipping. Do you think the retailers getting $80 dollers profit or a hole lot more? Now if they Lower the prices by lowering there profit on each item then they can perchase more stock and in the long run sell more stock due to lower prices and turn more profit due to a higher client base then befor. Everyone loves a deal and it dosent matter how loyal you are a bargan is a bargan.

Does he sell guns? Are there Airsoft Commercials on TV Right now?




Lawdog

yes and we still pay allot more for oil then most places. Yet we produce oil our selves mmm isent that strange. We pay more for something we make our selves. Globally oil dosent cost that mutch becuse there is allot of it.
Locally our government is gready and we get the poopy end of the stick. If there is a shortage, gas prices would be $500 doller per liter.


Well is Airsoft leagle or illeagle? If its not classified as illeagle then you can sell it the same way. If it is illeagle then you cannot sell it at all.

Brian McIlmoyle

we have yet to know for shure that the quantity is limeted to that extent. I have seen bulk orders befor wich leads me to thinking no there not limeted to that extent.


Arnisador

Most of us base our buisness knowledge off of what we see when buying stuff for our selves. We know that wal-mart closes down almost every other store around it when it opens. Even now there selling milk bread and other items and reguler grocery stores cant compete. bulk buying and selling pluse advertisment makes allot more profit then not bulk buying and selling. Thats what most of us know. Unless you dont watch tv or shop at malls and bulk food stores then you wouldent know that.

Most businesses who fail dont advertise properly. Most people know that from living in a city. A pizza shop opens, you dont see a comercial you dont get a flyer you dont give them your buisness the Pizza shop closes.

yet " Buhbuhbuh buh buhh im loving it " makes you crave a Quarter pounder with Cheese. People need to be shown what they want most of the time and most people starting a buisness dont know that.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:15   #43
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Look at the prices, there almost identical for both Asia and America. Wich means the Americans are getting there goods from the same place the Asian retailers do. shipping is allot cheaper from the stats to Canada then Asia to Canada, Jet fule is expensive.
The US also buys huge amounts like you were saying with Walmart. They also get sent by ship from Asia, not air. They are sent over in sea containers not cardboard boxes.


Quote:
Ok one thing you should know from dealing with Airsoft retailers is they can get bulk orders, so that restriction is most likly False.
Once you invest in something you wait untill it turns a profit. It becomes earning potential becuse you ivested your money into it. Your money sitting in your checking account is lost earning potential.
So inventory in a ware house or other storage facility is potential profit.
Bulk orders do lowever prices to a certian degree. However most Canadian retailers can't purchase the bulk sizes to get the best prices, because they know it will take years to sell.

Inventory sitting in storage is not only potential profit but it is loss of working capital and costing me interest the longer it sits there.

Profit isn't just made in on a single sale of an item, it depends on quick continous turn over - the more times per year I sell my entire stock.

Quote:
The price of a glock 18c has gone up from $290 to over $300. How does that happen when our doller rises
$10 isn't much. It's also percentages you have to look at. $10 is 3% on 300

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Do you sell Guns or gear? Becuse if you sell guns at American prices Let us know and your stock will be sold out in minutes.
Gear and equipement. We don't carry anything directed specifically to the airsoft market because the money is not there. You may think it is because you know 10 guys that want stuff, but wanting something and putting money down are two entirely different things.


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Dude lowering the prices isent lowering the amount you get for your investment, its lowering your profit on the item. you still make profit
just not an insane 100% or more profit
Most retailers would jump for joy if they could make 100% margins.

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Now if they Lower the prices by lowering there profit on each item then they can perchase more stock and in the long run sell more stock due to lower prices and turn more profit due to a higher client base then befor.
Unfotunatly in retail it doesn't work this way. I've already said that I dropped my prices and there was no rise in sales. It doesn't matter if it's gear or guns, the same theory should hold true.

Take for example a gaming system or computer. The price drops after thousands are sold. They don't cut the price so that many more can be sold.

It's also not a profit untill I make more than I invested. If I bring in $40,000 worth of gear, I don't make any profit until I sell more than the $40,000 and covered my other expenses. If I sell a TAG RAC for $600 I haven't made any profit on it until I get above the $40,000 (not including other expenses)

Quote:
Most of us base our buisness knowledge off of what we see when buying stuff for our selves.
Most business people base their knowledge off of experience in business and training. Not watching. Same goes for anything, your not special forces because you watched "Tears of the Sun".

Quote:
We know that wal-mart closes down almost every other store around it when it opens.
Volume purchases, which can only be done if you have turnover or a huge amount of working capital. On top of that you need to be able to leverage your suppliers.


Quote:
Most businesses who fail dont advertise properly.
Actually there are a couple of reasons.

1) Not enough working capital
2) Bad products
3) Wrong area

You may be swamped with more sales than you can handle and if you can't supply to that demand........
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 13:38   #44
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ah yes, volume.

What too many people don't appreciate is the LEVEL of volume required in order to get your nice pricepoints and lower prices.

To simplify a bit what Farmboy nicely detailed: (with some pricepoints I recall seeing back in 2001 and 2002)

For airsoft, find me someone who is readily able to bring in, say 200 guns of every model at a time. And maintain those orders on a monthly basis to keep your supplier happy. Lets say we stick to the holy trinity of airsoft rifles An armalite, an AK47, and an MP5 model. Say 600 guns. At $250 a pop.

Do the math bucko. $120000 for a basic inventory. No special orders. Turn away all those folks who want an MP5 SD6 because you only carry MP5 A5's. Then turn away the next batch because they wanted CA and you only stocked the cheaper TM's. Forget about GBB's because you did'nt have enough capital to buy those, so turn all those customers away.

And before you tell me to "just go get a loan", you show me first the business plan that shows the 5 year projections that allow you to not only sell all those guns, but also maintain inventories, pay rent/mortage, storeage, taxes, that proves to the financer that selling guns is a feasible business here in Canada.

And this is just to operate a nice local (but through the internet, national) business, that would be designated a small business or any business less than 50 employees.


Yup...its just SOOOOO easy to run an airsoft business in Canada, with nice cheap prices for everyone, out of the kindness of one's heart, because gawd forbid you actually want to earn enough money to eat, pay rent, pay utilities, buy clothes for the kids and *gasp* save enough money to retire on.

What's that? Just do it part-time? Oh of course, because all part-time busines owners always have $120,000 just lying around to "dabble" in the world of military simulation games. Just advertise a lot, and use up all that "earning potential" in your chequing account to play with the big boys and become the Canadian Walmart of airsoft.


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Old October 2nd, 2007, 13:58   #45
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Well that solves the problem. IF you cannot restock fast enough you loose Profit. Actually you can loose allot of profit by not having inventory in your store. Now some American retailers used to sell there guns with the origenal barrle included, not just the orange one and the trades had putty on them. Allot of british airsofters get there guns with putty aswell. There are many methods to getting rid of the putty. The condition your gun is in depends on
how gently your touch is while removing the putty.

You can get your guns cheap from america, shipping is cheap in bulk. You will have to try and get the putty guns that shouldent be to hard. And the hole tax and duties, well when have you ever had to pay $100 dollers in duties for a few cartines of smokes? Comon my mom goes to florida all the time and duties arent that mutch. Taxes should be the same, I know added together ther allot more then on there own. But like I said when Have you ever had to pay $100 dollers in Duties on a few cartines of smokes?

There is a masive market for airsoft. Just look at other places in the world were airsoft is sold, you see a growing market. In canada look at how many gun owners there are. Im pretty shure some of them wouldent mind
playing airsoft on there time off of work. Hobbies PRovide a large amoount of revenue in the world. So the market is there the only thing that would stop it or slow it down is restriction on ammount perchased and in most cases if its that restricted you get a few partners to get licenses and have them ship in the rest of your stock for a cut or less of a cut if you pay for there licenses.


IF I saw a Tanaka Colt .45 US $181 up on a canadian site for $350 CAD plus shipping I would buy it instently.Im shure if most people saw Any of there wanted guns for a few hundred less they would buy it in a hartbeat.
Lower prices means more people will want to buy. Look at most of the collectors. They can afford thousands of doller for there collection. What if it dident cost that mutch per gun. There would be more collerctors emerging.
Due to the fact that people who like guns usually like more than just one gun.

You missed the point. In the four years ive beeen privy to Airsoft, The price has gone up not down. And our doller has gone up not down. In Four years The PRice of an older gun usually drops. In Japan the price droped, but in canada the price rose. How do you explaing that? Even our tax has been lowered and the price has risen.

I dont know ten guys, I know a hole comunity of airsofters that would love the prices to drop. There dying to be able to buy two guns for what used to get them only one. There dying To have Airsoft fields that are airsoft only. There dying to be able to openly love there hobbie insted of keeping it a dark secret. I know that if you were saving up for a gun and then noticed the price drop $100 dollers a grin would come to your face.


Dude you sell gear and equipment, I can walk down my street and get gear and equipment, I dont need to buy it online. ( No disrespect intended )
Most people dont need to buy online. Hunting has been around for years, and most of the equipment you need for airsoft you can get at hunting or surplus stores. its a flooded market Like pizza stores. Now if you got your hands on some TM guns And had them at american prices, you would sell them out in a week. I say a week becuse people are werry about such things and it takes about a week to two for that first person to recieve there item and then the rest of the peole will rush to your site to get the deal.

Gamming systems are different. Companies like Sony and Microsoft have contracts that they have to up hold and they have other companies uphold.
So thats why you see the systems all priced the same. They are leagly binded to do so. Now deals to get rid of over stock is a completly different story. If it dosent sell make a deal to sell it. But as you may have noticed its kinda hard to stock current items like the wii. Becuse the demand is so hi. You still make 100% of your investment back you just cut your losses short and reinvest in another product Like all stores do. But if your smart you can prevent stock from pileing up. and Price has everything to do with it.


I ment avreage people not buissness people, your going to an extreme, Buisness is math and money and we deal with math and money all the time.
It dosent take a rocket scientist to see were the deals are and to save some cash. It is also obvious to see were a store dosent cater to your wants and needs. And it is easy to see were a store does cater to you. You buy groceries all the time. What makes price choppers so mutch different then IGA? The Prices on goods. What makes the Price Club and Sams club so mutch better to shop at? The price on the goods. Not just noname goods but the same goods you can get anywere else.

Dude its called a buisness not a hobbie. You ether get the money and spend it wisly or you dont. If you want to make money you will get allot of start up buy allot of stock and advertise that your stuff is cheaper then the other guys. Not better, its the same stuff just a hole lot cheaper. That right there is what made Buisness what it is today. Realising that there are more lower class residents then middle to upperclass. And that it is vertually untapped revinue. Poor people Want hobbies too.

Dude I said most not all, But most. A HArware store that opens within 10 minutes of a home depot is going to close verry fast. So placment closes allot of stores Aswell. Start up capital isent the main reason stores close, its customer base that kills a buisness.

Edit

Arnisador


Dude when you buy TM you can buy a vertiety from them not just the trinity.
Your obviusly trying to make a point by saying if you buy allot of one item you loose customers.
Well you dont have to buy one item, they have a large ammount to choose from just like a grocery store.
And iF you dont have something they want they can special order it. And if there are enough
people asking about it you can make it a part of your next shipment to try the item out.

You can show printouts of current gun perchases and say that even a fractioon of those people
like 1% would turn a profit for 5 years.

Most airsoft companies are part time on the side buisnesses. Web sites make things more outomated.
you would only need two people to handle odering and shipping.

Im just saying that right now most retailers are part time. If you make it a full time buisness
then of course you will put allot more money into it. And you can do well with 100 guns thats bulk enough.
And you can make them a nice veriety or you can open a forum and have polls. you list your prices and have people poll what guns they would buy for that price. Not all of the people will be buying the gun they recomended but most of them will. Most companies call them focuse groups and they have been useing them for years. See you can guage the market in manny different ways.
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