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Old August 16th, 2007, 13:37   #16
Lawdog
 
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Originally Posted by jaa View Post
ok guys thanks for all your help

A) the site is four acres of woodland surrounded on three sides by fields owned by people who know what we're doing and have told us to go ahead.

B) I stopped by 42 division and told them exactly what we'd be doing, and we're all reasonably certain that playing airsoft at this site is legal.

C) As for insurance, these are all very good friends of mine who all graduated high school in the same year as me. I've spent four years with these guys and I'm quite certain they are all 18+. Nevertheless, I have a waiver signed by all of them saying they themselves are personally responsible for all injuries that they get playing airsoft in these woods. I hope I don't have to pull it out, but it's in a locked cabinet.
Dude, if I take it c) means that you are either not insured or inadequately insured and are relying on your buddies good will to not sue you, that would be most unwise.

An eye injury, spinal cord injury, brain injury, or any serious injury and that good will will evaporate along with their ability to live a normal life.

Your waiver, no matter which lawyer custom drafted it for you (and which lawyer did custom draft it for you?), is not a defense to the lawsuit. Trust me.

If it was my butt on the line, I would want nothing less than 2M coverage, and would feel better with 5M.

LD
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Old August 16th, 2007, 14:10   #17
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Say I suffer a debilitating injury on a field, something dramatic like spinal cord injury, after I made the relevant claims to my insurance, they would in turn sue the living hell out of the field owner, right?
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Old August 16th, 2007, 14:32   #18
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No, thats what insurance is for. The insurance company pays the money out to you, and then the premium for the field goes up.
Unless it was your insurance, then they still pay you out and then your premium goes up.

Please allow me to elaborate on a few of the things mentioned to me by my broker. Essentially when you go to set up insurance for your field, you fill out some questionaries in regards to your set up, whats on your field, type of equiptment you are using/issuing to use, FPS of your guns, etc.
Afterwards your broker would submit that form to a company like....say...
Sports Can Insurance
http://www.sports-can.ca/
And from there you would recieve a quote. Now my broker recommended that for minimum coverage to have at the very very least 2 million, and that was already stated in a previous post, and its well suggest to have something more like 5 million. Now my broker was able to look into the cost of a local field in saskatchewan and as it stands, I can and will not name the company, but they run very respectable operation, and as it stands they had a prior good history as well, and for their package it costed them approximate $2200.00 a year. Now for someone just starting off with out such a good history, it would most likly be more around $2600+.

Just thought Id throw some more in the pot for you guys.
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Old August 16th, 2007, 14:42   #19
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Old August 16th, 2007, 15:55   #20
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Ermm....if 42 Division TPS is the local law enforcement, then you'd be breaking municipal discharge bilaws by playing airsoft on the property. That's usually only an issue if someone complains, but should still be considered.

Toronto's about the most gun unfriendly place on the planet....
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Old August 16th, 2007, 16:57   #21
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welcome to jane and finch
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Old August 17th, 2007, 08:25   #22
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Say I suffer a debilitating injury on a field, something dramatic like spinal cord injury, after I made the relevant claims to my insurance, they would in turn sue the living hell out of the field owner, right?
Assuming you had your own insurance that covered you (which is pretty unlikely, unless you have AD&D or Disability coverage), you would indeed sue the field owner, the host, and anyone else you felt contributed to their injury.

Strangely enough just telling an insurer that you are injured is not enough to get them to pay. Funny that. Even when they agree to pay, you usually have to sue them to sort out how much.

Insurance policies, especially third party policies, don't usually pay without litigation. Then when the law suit is settled or tried, the insurer pays the part up to their limits and you get stuck with the rest.

This is the short version, but it is very rare that insurers pay out large sums without some litigation.

I'd be curious to know what kind of policy Tokoyo7 meant when he said "your insurance" and then your premiums go up. That part made almost no sense to me at all.

LD
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Last edited by Lawdog; August 17th, 2007 at 09:26..
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Old August 17th, 2007, 08:36   #23
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Assuming you had your own insurance that covered you (which is pretty unlikely, unless you have AD&D or Disability coverage), you would indeed sue the field owner, the host, and anyone else you felt contributed to their injury.

Strangely enough just telling an insurer that you are injured is not enough to get them to pay. Funny that. Even when they agree to pay, you usually have to sue them to sort out how much.

Insurance policies, especially third party policies, don't usually pay without litigation. Then when the law suit is settled or tried, the insurer pays the part up to their limits and you get stuck with the rest.

This is the short version, but it is very rare that insurers pay out large sums without some litigation.

I'd be curious to know what kind of policy Tokoyo7 meant when he said "you insurance" and then your premiums go up. That part made almost no sense to me at all.

LD
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Old August 17th, 2007, 09:14   #24
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welcome to jane and finch
Wait. What?

You want to take your friends. Go run around with guns. Shooting each other. At Jane / Finch.

ARE YOU NUTS?

So you told one officer at 42, great. He'll know. Chances are he'll be off when you play and before you know it, OPFOR will be TPS ETF.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 10:23   #25
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I think he was talking about Toronto being gun-unfriendly, I highly doubt there are "several acres of woodland" in Jane and Finch. But what do I know, I'm from the island.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:22   #26
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I think he was talking about Toronto being gun-unfriendly, I highly doubt there are "several acres of woodland" in Jane and Finch. But what do I know, I'm from the island.
You'd be right, we're heading somewhere between the GTA and Orillia. I've been there, and believe me there are only 3 families living within two miles of the property.

There is an almost zero chance of anyone else coming near that area.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:39   #27
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You still have the problem of legalities and insurance. Take care of that first, then think about running games.

Or do like I suggested; hang around for a few months and learn first. Then next season, when you know what's needed and have the cash for it, organize games.

You really DONT want to face the consequences of not being ready in case you get sued OR a complaint is filed with the cops. All it takes is ONE mistake or ONE person who sees "GUYS WITH GUNS!!!" and dials 911.

Allright? Your choice. It's your ass on the line, not mine.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 11:40   #28
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At the end of the day

You will do what you want,

I'm pretty sure 42 div has nothing to do with a small tract of woods near barrie... but anyway...

Final advice.... going into this "hoping" it will be ok without taking the steps to ensure that you will not run into trouble is a recipe for disaster..

likley you will be just fine.. and you will have a great game.... and loads of fun... but maybe it will go off the rails... and you will end up in court defending yourself and your future against a civil action... or a criminal charge.. or both...

it just all depends on how much risk you are willing to take..

My advise... put the work in... do it right
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Old August 17th, 2007, 16:15   #29
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Jane and Finch is 31Div, 42Div is in Scarborough.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 16:17   #30
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everyone can breathe a sigh of relief, game went off without a hitch
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