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Old August 12th, 2007, 07:19   #46
maxx
 
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hmm their ICS section still exists..

although the email, that someone posted on ASC about them not having any "black" guns in, is clear.... i still have hope.

these guys had the cheapest ICS airsoft. seriously.. too bad it walked away from me

hoping for the best. im sure there might be a few "accidental mishshippings"
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Old August 12th, 2007, 08:29   #47
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Originally Posted by thePiRaTE!! View Post
The problem here in Canada is the only way you can legally sell a 'replica' (as airsoft is currently classified) is as a firearms dealer, to customers with PALs. Not much of a market in that I'm afraid, unless we all go and get ours and lobby the Wolverines and Shooting Edges out there to carry.

I sure as hell never heard of something like this to be remotely true. Would sure solve a lot of problems!
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Old August 12th, 2007, 09:53   #48
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hobosoft gave me herpes and killed my mother
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Old August 12th, 2007, 10:33   #49
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they had a way to import real airsoft and somehow they got noticed and now it's dead.
that's my theory
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Old August 12th, 2007, 10:58   #50
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Originally Posted by thePiRaTE!! View Post

Hopefully one day our hobby will be granted a special paintball/sport status, but quite frankly I just don't see it with the realism. It freaks people out. We'll likely continue to survive on the fringe as we have on a hand to mouth supply of new guns.
But now that some paintball markers are getting close to being replicas (at least without the tank), I wonder if that could help Airsoft.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 11:46   #51
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OOOOH gaaawd,

i couldn't beleve it when i've looked on their site today, i guess someone from a&a airsoft must be having a boner today when he realised how things turned out. It really is pathetic.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 12:08   #52
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Originally Posted by Omi-san View Post
But now that some paintball markers are getting close to being replicas (at least without the tank), I wonder if that could help Airsoft.
yeah I was suprized to see them like that when I received the SIR catalogue a few days ago. Still looks silly with the "fruit basket" on top of the paint ball gun.

btw I am starting to feel sorry for buyairsoft now that we keep beating it like a dead horse. lol.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 12:53   #53
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Originally Posted by Omi-san View Post
But now that some paintball markers are getting close to being replicas (at least without the tank), I wonder if that could help Airsoft.
Not really, those tactical markers aren't the foundation of paintball. If it comes right down to it, they'd just give up on that particular direction of development, again.

Interesting note, many airsoft guns are illegally acquired (can't transfer replicas between individuals) but beyond that all are basically completely legally owned (no licences for replicas, replicas exempt from prosecution for just having it). On the other hand, the majority of paintball markers acquired and/or owned by individuals under 18 and without a PAL are in fact illegal, because a standard 3.2g paintball fired at a standard field limit of 280fps well exceeds 5.7J of muzzle velocity (in fact, most are perfectly capable of going beyond that), making those paintball markers technically firearms. Something else to think about the next time you share the field with paintballers.

At the end of the day, our predicament is a matter of who's interpreting what part of the law they're responsible for. Paintball's bipolar approach to realistic appearance is not so much hypocracy as an internal fight over how to keep off the PC radar.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 15:35   #54
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On the other hand, the majority of paintball markers acquired and/or owned by individuals under 18 and without a PAL are in fact illegal, because a standard 3.2g paintball fired at a standard field limit of 280fps well exceeds 5.7J of muzzle velocity (in fact, most are perfectly capable of going beyond that), making those paintball markers technically firearms. Something else to think about the next time you share the field with paintballers.
No. It has to both exceed the energy limit, and the 500fps limit to be a firearm. If one of those is not exceeded, its not.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 17:42   #55
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No. It has to both exceed the energy limit, and the 500fps limit to be a firearm. If one of those is not exceeded, its not.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc...dese:84-ss:_3_

It's not an "and", it's an "or".
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Old August 12th, 2007, 19:43   #56
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Actually its to NOT be considered a firearm:

Quote:
[...] the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:

[...]

( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge

(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or

(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
(Mv < 152.5m/s || Me < 5.7j) != firearm

Therefor his statement was correct, it has to exceed both to be a firearm.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 19:52   #57
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You're reading the wrong "or".

Quote:
( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
Not the above "or". The above simply states that the weapon, in order not to be considered a firearm, cannot do the following:

Quote:
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or

(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
Those two "or". Paintball markers can and do exceed 5.7J, and they don't need to also exceed 152.4m because it's an "or" not an "and". Therefore, they're firearms if the courts or law enforcement ever need to come down on them. There was actually notable debate in C-10A, the amendment that the above section came from, over whether it should be "or" or "and".
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Old August 12th, 2007, 21:01   #58
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Let me put it to you simply this way. There are MANY .22 caliber pellet guns here in Canada with the rating of just under 500fps, with pellets 11-15grains at that velocity. That exceeds the energy limit, but not the velocity limit. Not a firearm, no PAL required, I own several.
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Old August 12th, 2007, 21:46   #59
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
You're reading the wrong "or".



Not the above "or". The above simply states that the weapon, in order not to be considered a firearm, cannot do the following:



Those two "or". Paintball markers can and do exceed 5.7J, and they don't need to also exceed 152.4m because it's an "or" not an "and". Therefore, they're firearms if the courts or law enforcement ever need to come down on them. There was actually notable debate in C-10A, the amendment that the above section came from, over whether it should be "or" or "and".
Quote:
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules
That's what I meant though, its one OR the other that aren't met then it ISN'T a firearm.

deemed not to be firearms if the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules


Anyway that's how I'm reading it... legalese makes my head hurt. Where's Lawdog??
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Old August 12th, 2007, 21:59   #60
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Let me put it to you simply this way. There are MANY .22 caliber pellet guns here in Canada with the rating of just under 500fps, with pellets 11-15grains at that velocity. That exceeds the energy limit, but not the velocity limit. Not a firearm, no PAL required, I own several.
There are also people selling airsoft guns between individuals, which is supposed to be a no-no. My whole point is that not all laws are enforced the way they're written. Your example only shows how bizarre Canada's control of replica firearm can be.
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