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Old May 9th, 2007, 12:36   #16
techobo
 
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Here are two more diagrams for Corners


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4...ccornercy1.jpg


http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/959...corner2re2.jpg
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Old May 9th, 2007, 15:18   #17
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The second one would probably be better. Im not exactly sure. They both look like reasonable tactics. The second one just looks better.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 17:06   #18
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Just wanted to say great work so far, I would go fro #2 if your not worried about the rear, but #1 if you are. Keep them coming though. Will you be expanding into 3 and 4 team members?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 17:32   #19
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Actually, #2 would be MUCH better if blue unit reversed itself and watched the rear once it secured the corner. Red unit arcing out and away from the corner gives him ample room to manuever his long arm and to fall back. Taking corners you don't want to be right up against it; you'd be better at least a couple feet away from it so that you can "pop" out and lay down fire if needed. Also, #2 gives red unit the perfect vantage if there are any doors on the right of the adjacent hall, or anymore corners. So that during their push up this hall, their fields are covering each other and making sure all doors there may be are covered. There is still a lot of their backs being left exposed here.

Sweep teams usually consist of four men, and that is where a lot of the back being left exposed here is coming from. Someone should always be watching the rear.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 15:25   #20
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What program did you use to draw those?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 19:37   #21
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I used Adobe Illustrator CS2 to make these, but you could use Photoshop or Indesign to get the same results.

Thanks freewheelin4eva, and ya, I plan on working on some 3, 4 and even 5 man stuff. We'll just see when I get around to all of that

Dracheous, does this one work a bit better?

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2...corner3ie6.jpg
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Old May 10th, 2007, 19:40   #22
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Why pie the corner twice? One man can do it while the other checks the rear, less moving around, quicker and safe enough, no?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 20:34   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridiculous132 View Post
Why pie the corner twice? One man can do it while the other checks the rear, less moving around, quicker and safe enough, no?
Because your setting up your man.


Techobo: Yes, much. Only thing that "could" be changed is have Red watch rear till blue gets the corner, then execute the same maneuver; but its really going to be assumed that the rear unit is making constant check of rear and periphals (windows, railings, etc.).



Ridculous, let me explain the logic here. If you are the blue unit and I am red. You move on the corner and secure it, while I bring up the rear; checking behind and watching peripherals (if any). Once you have the corner, I turn and execute that maneuver, while having ample room to operate if and when shit hits the fan (ie. bail for cover or engage). Once I have that corner secured, you turn the corner and would begin the push up, with me in position to take up the rear, never dropping a barrel from the area we want to go. This also gives me the oportunity to verify the next intersection, as there may be another hall adjacent, or doors open along the right hand side, which would be difficult to verify from the corner; not impossible, but difficult.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 20:49   #24
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Techobo: Yes, much. Only thing that "could" be changed is have Red watch rear till blue gets the corner, then execute the same maneuver; but its really going to be assumed that the rear unit is making constant check of rear and periphals (windows, railings, etc.).

Should blue pie the entire corner so that he can see even what is on the right side of the hallway? I think that's what you mean.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 21:00   #25
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Nope, just peaking the corner like Blue unit is doing is fine. If there is a hostile contact with in 6 feet of you, you don't want to step out. All that peak that is shown is really going to be a quick glance, and then its all Red.

What I was getting at was, people seem to want to see red unit watching the rear in the diameter, but he should be watching where he steps too. Red Units "patrol" watch is going to be almost 300 degrees. So yes, his periphals will over lap blue units quite a bit, but that is a good thing, people can miss things, its only human nature to frack up once and a while, and thats really why you want to have a back up. Cause he's going to not only watch your back, but he's going to be your life line. The lead unit will be the one that gets "tunnel" vision and becomes so focused on where he's going, he'll '"forget" to look over his shoulder. But, a unit should not become dependent on another unit either, so both units should be watching "everywhere" so to speak. Its kind of hard to type out what I mean here, but its just the buddy system, and as I've stated before, all this manuever does, is set up your rear in a position to clear you to the hall. Problem with "One man can do it." Is the one guy starts going too fast, and forgets to count the doors, or miss counts, and later someone jumps out with an AK and carves him a new one.

I love to watch all the video's that get post of room clearing fire teams. It always seems to be going so fast, but thats just to our eyes really. To the members of those teams, they are going slow. Looking twice won't kill you, but forgetting to look can, and thats really why those teams will double sometimes triple check everything as they go. We just don't see it, because we come in at the flashbangs and smoke grenades and simunition rounds flying, that we don't catch all the signals and movements of the team. Which is exactly what they want to accomplish. Their movements are methodical and calculated, and really give the illusion of speed, and that illusion buys them the 1 second hesitation that saves their lives when they storm a room.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:55   #26
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For 2 man, Front man Pies the corner , rear maintains rear security,

Front then turns corner, and rear "reverse Pies " corner to follow.

Simple... no swinging around... no eyes off your arc.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 02:05   #27
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Verry verry useful I will study them hardcore

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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:47   #28
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the thing is studying it will not cut it, if you are running with a team you need to get together and run through the actions over and over, burn it into your brain, so ya'll will do it when things are a little more crazy. it needs to feel smooth when you do it, you do not want to be coming up to a corner or a door, and be like ok I need to pan right 180 right now, and hope your mate is doing what he should be.
there my rant for the night now I can go to bed.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 14:29   #29
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hmm interesting. If you made them using flash it would be pretty cool because you could animate it. In fact... I have flash...and I would gladly animate it . Hehe but only if you want it.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 15:44   #30
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If you want to animate it go nuts dude. It's not like any of the elements that I presented are all that complicated so it should be pretty easy to replicate.
I say go for it
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