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HELP! RE:A&A Airsoft, Miss-advertised Tanaka M700 AICS sale



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Old April 21st, 2007, 17:30   #16
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Yes, but we are talking about a $1000. If someone came in and bought a $1000 set of NVG's here and came back after 3 months, telling me that they are not the one they wanted. Its not a t-shirt, its a big part of your months bottom line and your asking me to swallow a big pill so you won't have too. If you can name the business owner of a small Biz chances are he's a busy guy. With a lot of product coming and going, there will be errors, and we accept a certain amount of responsibility for that. But theres a point that it is not fiscally responsible to comply with the customers requests. Its not that difficult to see why he would refuse.
I used to work for one guy who in 23 years never gave a refund. Alway argued. He either lost a customer or found an agreeable solution. Dumbass was proud of that. I changed the Policy to allow for refunds as they were expressed by Management. I would allow a refund to customers were it was considered benificial to the company to do so. So instead of losing a sale or a customer after looking at other options I would allow for a refund. It made a difference.
I also worked for a company that had a standing policy to offer a ton of no-charge extras and no questions refund. This policy was taken for granted and abused to a great expense of the company.
Its about being rational and reasonable. Find a solution that would be acceptable to A&A. You have a product and money, he has a store and a reputation. Return ship and re-order something else similtainiously with some extras, or sell the AEG on your own to recoupe your expense, but to Expect a refund for that amount of money, after that long, from a small business, is not realistic.

Last edited by Armyissue; April 21st, 2007 at 17:50.. Reason: Diction
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Old April 21st, 2007, 17:50   #17
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3 months or not, the product was not what was ordered. Granted I think a "normal" store what you are pointing out is very true. But....this is AIRSOFT. Word of mouth is worth more in airsoft IMO. A&A could accept it back and sell it again and nobody is worse for wear, OR even offering to accept it back but minus $50 for restocking due to the time between the original transaction and now.

But a response of " go talk to Tanaka", that is not a prefessional way of doing things. Just look at this thread....bad publicity in the airsoft community goes farther then a "normal" retail buisness due to how close the community is.

As I said, smart thing to do as a retailer here is to accept it back and move on. The longer this situation goes on the worse it ends up being.

Just to recap, I agree with what you posted, but it doesn't work so well in airsoft due to how "clicky" and close knit the community is.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 17:53   #18
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At the medium-sized Mac store I used to work at, the main factor in refunding something like this is the time. Essentially, within a month we'd take it back and charge a 15% restock fee. In this case, with a misadvertised product, we'd probably take it back within a month at no restock fee, but after a month we'd charge the 15%. Something to consider...
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Old April 21st, 2007, 17:58   #19
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Originally Posted by Armyissue View Post
Hmmm. You bought rifle, because it had a specialized feature, you did take it out of the box when you received it and didn't look at it for 3 months. Then sold it again after having PM's & emails with the buyer. The Buyer gets it and tells you the next day its not a PCS. Is it and invisible upgrade? ...
I'm the guy who discovered that the AICS does not have the PCS. It is not "invisible" but it does require removing the bolt to be sure. Takes 2 seconds to confirm but neither of us knew how to check until I did a little research.
A friend of mine ordered an AICS recently from A&A and it too does not have the PCS but is an export version (says so on the box) that has a larger nozzle than the domestic(japan) version which supposedly only shoots around 200fps with duster. If he hadn't known about the relatively new FPS limit law in Japan, he too would've expected the PCS as there is only ONE description for 3 versions of the same gun at A&A.
This is an issue A&A should take up with his supplier not pass the buck onto the unsuspecting consumer. If something similar happened say with your car where the size of the engine was misrepresented, you'd be going to the retailer not the manufacturer!

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Old April 21st, 2007, 18:03   #20
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Originally Posted by Armyissue View Post
Yes, but we are talking about a $1000. If someone came in and bought a $1000 set of NVG's here and came back after 3 months, telling me that they are not the one they wanted. ..
It's not like that at all!! Granted time has passed but he was not sold what he intended to buy!! The issue isn't sour grapes 'cause the PCS is better but that he bought the Tanaka with the PCS but was sent a gun that is essentially useless without some upgrades!!!
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Old April 21st, 2007, 18:14   #21
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About the comment of 'word of mouth means everything in airsoft'.

Whether or not he accepts it back... it likely won't hurt his business, being that he is one of only two that are currently importing.

Although, of course, if 007Airsoft does start importing in any quantity again, then Mark may lose some business anyway.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 18:39   #22
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"talk to Tanaka " is the easiest way to unload your customer service dept if your busy.
"Go to the web site and send me a link for what you want". Its not the same as the McDonalds refernce. When ordering stuff like that there are details that are important to you. If the Manufacturer offers a sevice to get it exactly right do you need the retailer to hold your hand?
I can and will help you with what ever you need, My web site has pics of stuff on it, send me the link, with the size, the colour, the material. I'll ship what you asked for. Thank you, come again.
Dude, I sell pants, has so many phone converstations that start... "Uhm do you have army pants?"
Ask a MOD about PM's that start "Uh where can I get the AS guns". Well Mark deals with all those guys.
And feel free to shop where ever you want for ASG's. You have sooooo many to chose from here in Canada. lol
I don't want to sound like an ass here, I do a lotta business with ASers on the boards and in my shop. But take care of your own business and don't try to gain leverage by trying to smear A&A on the boards. Thats kinda juvenile.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 19:24   #23
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Originally Posted by silent_lemon View Post
So, i received it promptly, opened the box, cool, big green gun, content with my new m700 AICS PCS, I propped it up in a corner not 2 feet from the original box, and decided to relieve myself from the nearing 2 year airsoft hiatus when it gets warmer.

So, you've read everything you could find about the m700, opened the box (I assumed you looked it over a few times. I know I can't put down a new gun right away), and didn't look at it again for almost three months?

Now I can see that if it was a month, or possibly two at most, you might've had a good chance. But three months is a long time, and Mark has no idea what you've done with the gun. Not saying you have, but you have to see it from his eyes as a business owner. If he accepts it back, sells it to someone else and finds out something is wrong with it that wasn't blatently obvious at the time, he's on the hook for a lot of money.

Is it easy to mod to the m700 to have the PCS? (I know very little about the m700's) If so, mod it and sell it. sure you won't get exactly what you paid for it, but you do get a substantial portion of it. If not, sell it as the non-PCS version. It sucks, but you said you've read everything about it. I assumed you would've come across the same thing SBranson23 did when you were researching.

As for Mark, he should change the description as due diligance on his part. He should be keeping on top of these things if he's going to be selling them in his store.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 19:41   #24
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well, yes, i didnt touch it for 3 months, it's sat in the same spot for 3 months. i think ive taken the mag out and put it in probably 5 times or so. Other than that, I dont have time right now to play airsoft, and there are bigger priorities. I could hop back into airsoft at any moment because i still maintain my gear and camos but the gun, i needed. And it's not seen any action of any sort ever.

I understand the concern though, 3 months is a long time. But id be willing to take it to a 3rd party if there's such qualms with my word.

the box and the gun as of right now, the gun sat where the box is now for 3 months.

the box and gun together

drocs sake - Im not trying to spread slanderous or untrue words about A&A, ill buy from them again, but rather looking for some support in this case, because the ad states, PCS, i was not sent PCS, even IF i used the gun, and even resold the gun, I would have grounds to complain that in the past, A&A advertised a different gun than that was sent. So regardless if anything is done, I hope he will check over his inventory and correctly advertise each one, to the letter.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 19:46   #25
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Originally Posted by Armyissue View Post
And no retailers do not have an automatic refund return or exchange whenever you feel like it policy.
Maybe not, but the law does require retailers to have a return policy. Both parties in a contract have 7 business days to cancel a contract, even after it's "finished". Look it up. 3 months however is pretty long, but I'd hope a decent retailer especially in the airsoft biz would do something more than pass the buck...
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Old April 21st, 2007, 19:49   #26
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I gove thumbs up to A&A, just got a CQB and he did everything he could to make sure i got it in time. great guy.

I was looking into a AG36 and was told he price matched. when i showed him a competitor he said he wouldn't do it. Im still a big fan of him though. I have heard sticky stuff about the business though involving responsibility and money.

I think 3 months is a bit much. If you had noticed right away, im sure he would have returned it.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 19:52   #27
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if you didnt have the arguement of whether or not it has been used, what difference does 7 days have over 30, 35, 60, or even 90 days?

it's only time. He's still in business. He can resell to someone who knows what theyre buying.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 20:03   #28
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Ask Mark if he'd be willing to give a good discount on the parts one'd need to upgrade it to the AICS PCS state to either you or whoever buys that rifle? Probably best you can hopeful right now.

I think you should ideally get a full refund in the form of store credit. Considering the current state of airsoft availability in Canada, I doubt Mark will have trouble selling that rifle. However, I doubt that (full store credits) is going to happen. The 3 months really does hurt your case.
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Old April 21st, 2007, 20:07   #29
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i only said the above comment because, really it hasnt had more than a few shoulderings and a few mag pulls, never fired, never chambered a bb. no gas inserted. it's virgin enough to be mint. That's why i argue the 90 days, wonder what the difference is between saying having received this 7 days ago, and bitching now, and 90 days ago, and bitching now.

Come to think of it, it's almost like i received it less than 7 days ago, because i never looked at it closely enough to doubt whether the inside underneath of the bolt had the PCS or not. I simply TRUSTED A&A. and that's where i believe the fault lies - case and point
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Old April 21st, 2007, 20:10   #30
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I guess I'm just an old fart that still thinks that customers come first. Very dissappointed to hear about your dealing with A&A. I rather go without a new AEG than risk getting a bad one. Especially to have to hear from the retailer telling that it's not their problem that they sent you the wrong one.

He might be one of the few retailers that are selling guns right now, but it doesn't make a difference to me. Good for him if you think, well, if you don't buy from him, someone else will. I will not deal with retailers that don't give a rat's ass to customers. I'm also sorry to hear that Armyissue agrees with him. Too bad for all then....
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