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Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:

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Old March 20th, 2007, 00:34   #1
Luckyorwhat
 
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Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:

- Because it was a 'feel good' measure not addressing the anti's concerns. Ironically now that the 'franchise' has been denied to younger players, instead of making the sport more legitimate it's become much less so.

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Oshawa should support replica gun bylaw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oshawa should support replica gun bylaw
http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/voice...-4523451c.html

When police officers feel so strongly about a safety issue they make public appeals to our politicians, our leaders should listen.

Durham Regional Police Constable Todd Petzold has been appealing to politicians across Durham to adopt local bylaws that would regulate replica guns. When officers attend a gun call they can't guess if a gun is fake or not. That split-second timing could cost them -- and the gun holder -- their lives.

After Oshawa council instructed staff to draft a bylaw regulating replica guns, the corporate services committee voted it down last week. This issue will go to full council where hopefully the majority will ensure this bylaw is approved. It's been approved in Clarington and Scugog and many other GTA communities are looking to adopt similar bylaws.

Const. Petzold said more needs to be done to bring this attention to light. "The members of our communities don't fully grasp the seriousness of this," he said.

It's clear that's true. Councillor Robert Lutczyk, chairman of the corporate services committee, has rejected the replica gun bylaw from the start. While he's certainly entitled to his opinion his comments are a great disservice to the real issues our police officers face.

"I'm not going to support a level of government taking draconian measures where Joey down the street and his 10-year-old friend can't go to a park and play GI Joe or anything kids do," said Coun. Lutczyk. "A mountain is being created out of a molehill because some teenagers in Scugog Township were doing some things they shouldn't have... I don't think we need to create any additional bureaucracy and be running around after little kids with squirt guns."

Clearly he's living in the past with fond childhood memories of playing war or cops and robbers. These are different times where most people, experts alike, couldn't tell the difference between a real handgun and a replica. And to suggest that kids using super soakers or orange plastic guns are going to be rounded up is ridiculous and insulting.
He should see the issue through they eyes of an officer who has to attend a gun call and isn't sure if that teen has a loaded gun in his hand. It could well be a life or death call.



Letters please guys we know this is a waste of money and resources cbovie@durhamregion.com

City council letters here pnokes@oshawa.ca all council will receive a copy
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Old March 20th, 2007, 00:57   #2
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"Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:"

And never will. Mandatory regulation is either going to be imposed by us or upon us. The latter means the end of airsoft in Canada.

There is no more "living under the radar" or "we'll just continue to do what we've always done" bullshit. Either we shape up (all of us), or melt down your guns for pencil-holders.

We're on the radar now and clearly in the sights of LE and government. It's only a matter of time until THEY pull the trigger.

Alarmist rhetoric? Maybe? Better that than the "head in sand" syndrome gripping the community these days.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 01:51   #3
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your link didnt work...
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:29   #4
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Originally Posted by mcguyver View Post
"Why voluntary self-regulation didn't work:"

And never will. Mandatory regulation is either going to be imposed by us or upon us. The latter means the end of airsoft in Canada.

There is no more "living under the radar" or "we'll just continue to do what we've always done" bullshit. Either we shape up (all of us), or melt down your guns for pencil-holders.

We're on the radar now and clearly in the sights of LE and government. It's only a matter of time until THEY pull the trigger.

Alarmist rhetoric? Maybe? Better that than the "head in sand" syndrome gripping the community these days.
While we have had our differences, I have to agree one hundred percent dude.

While I preach in other threads that what we are trying to sell is so scary it will probably not ever be accepted, that doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't try.

We know what they want, we should at least go down fighting and yelling our viewpoint as loudly as we can.

It's still a fucking free country.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:44   #5
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It's still a fucking free country
That's more or less ruled by the paranoid soccor moms.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:50   #6
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Originally Posted by Blackthorne View Post
While I preach in other threads that what we are trying to sell is so scary it will probably not ever be accepted, that doesn't mean I don't think we shouldn't try.

We know what they want, we should at least go down fighting and yelling our viewpoint as loudly as we can.

It's still a fucking free country.
Scary is right, I've told close friends what I do, and I still get the "You're fuckin' nutz!" look, and these people know me personally. Imagine the thoughts of someone who has no clue who you are?

And I agree with the kicking and screeming part. Because as I see it, they WILL ban us, so we might as well let them know how we feel about it. Hit them while they are not ready for us, instead of reacting to what they do.

In my experience, the one who lands the first punch usually wins. I know it doesn't apply here, but I'd rather fight my rapist now, either than wait and see if he's serious or not.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:56   #7
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Municipalities are free to establish by-laws to make replicas illegal within their jurisdictions.. the penalty for by-law infractions are fines.

For the most part... most municipalities already have by-laws in place making it illegal to discharge anything that fires a projectile within the municipality.
And Municipalities are free to define a firearm at whatever fps they want.. most have taken the stance that anything that fires a projectile at any speed is a "firearm" under their by-laws.

Municipalities can aslo restrict trade in such "firearms" typically by making sales 18 + on pain of loosing your business license.

Although such bylaws can be limiting to our activites for the most part what we do as a community is within the body of most civic by-laws.

When I was setting up the FTF just south of Acton.. I met with the chief by-law officer of Halton Region.. and got a full rundown of the "typical" civic by-laws governing the use of replicas within the Greater Halton Region..

By-laws .. pretty much can be ignored...as they don't have much effect.. and are only enforced on the direct complaint of a citizen. And we are within the laws in most cases.

Most By-laws actualy serve our aims by making it harder for minors to get guns.. and giving ramifications out side of criminal charges for abuse.. so they are more likley to act as a deterrent to abuse for casual misuse of airsoft guns by minors.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 10:57   #8
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ya know we could keep doing the soccer mom comments or we could finally organizie...

I'll wait for people to try to flame once again for suggesting that we actually try to do something with our community... Maybe Penquin will call me a facist again.

Bah! screw it, I'll book a room and call for an open invite for people to come and voice what those who are interested in trying to keep what little of our sport legal. people want to bitch about it and how others are going to force their rules etc etc should,
A) get your asses to games more often cause a great many have chairsofted for way too long.
B) not join up.
C) ignore anything that those who decide to organizie do and keep their heads in the sand.


ok guys go ahead and flame me.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 11:01   #9
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We know what they want, we should at least go down fighting and yelling our viewpoint as loudly as we can.
Agreed. Maybe it's my European upbringing, but I'm not accustomed to just sitting down and taking it. When the goverment does something you don't agree with, you let it know.

Now, I'm not saying we should throw tact and proper etiquette out the window, but there are ways to make our opinions heard and we can, and in my opinion NEED, to start sharing them with the people that matter. Self-regulation is fine and dandy, but if we don't TELL people we're doing it, then what's the point?

I don't mean any offense to anyone on the site, but it's not ASC members that need to hear your opinion, it's your MP, your local representative and your town councillors. It's painfully obvious to anyone who spends enough time reading what the site's heavy-hitters, like HonestJohn, Blackthorne, Scarecrow, Greylocks and others, have to say about this; none of us would write our MPs saying "LOLz I likes shootin' ppl wit mah fake guns".

If we really care about the sport, then there's no reason NOT to write to the people that matter and give them a piece of our minds. It's time to explain to them that while airsoft (soft air, to them it's the same) has been used irresponsibly by childish teenagers in the past few months, the majority of airsoft players are responsible and that we feel it is unfair that the majority of us should suffer because of a few idiots.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 11:04   #10
Brian McIlmoyle
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Originally Posted by Zeonprime View Post
ya know we could keep doing the soccer mom comments or we could finally organizie...

I'll wait for people to try to flame once again for suggesting that we actually try to do something with our community... Maybe Penquin will call me a facist again.

Bah! screw it, I'll book a room and call for an open invite for people to come and voice what those who are interested in trying to keep what little of our sport legal. people want to bitch about it and how others are going to force their rules etc etc should,
A) get your asses to games more often cause a great many have chairsofted for way too long.
B) not join up.
C) ignore anything that those who decide to organizie do and keep their heads in the sand.


ok guys go ahead and flame me.
Fact is that there are a lot of people who support the idea of organizing.. and creating a framework for self regulation and activism on behalf of the community.
And everyone is standing around waiting for someone to step up and do it.

Are you that person? It does matter who it is... because they must be able to garner popular support.. but mostly they have to be ready to carry a lot of water for every one else.

There is a huge gulf between talking about doing something.. and actually making it happen.

This effort will be pretty much a part time job for someone.. that costs you money rather than paying any.

Whos up for that?
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Old March 20th, 2007, 11:26   #11
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Originally Posted by Gerkraz View Post
If we really care about the sport, then there's no reason NOT to write to the people that matter and give them a piece of our minds. It's time to explain to them that while airsoft (soft air, to them it's the same) has been used irresponsibly by childish teenagers in the past few months, the majority of airsoft players are responsible and that we feel it is unfair that the majority of us should suffer because of a few idiots.
The main reason not to write your MP directly is because that when you try and influence politicians if your group sends messages that are not completely lock step they will treat you like the ill-organized rabble that you appear to be, rather than the unified lobbying voice you want to be.

LD
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Old March 20th, 2007, 12:40   #12
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Right, but firstly, we're not all writing to the same people, and secondly, we don't have to start the letter with "as a member of the ASC community"...you can address them as the citizen you are, can you not?

There is a false presumption here that anyone writing letters will be "speaking for the community" when in fact they might as well (and should, imo) speak for themselves.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 12:51   #13
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ok guys go ahead and flame me.
:flame: (yes, I know the smilie doesn't work anymore)

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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
This effort will be pretty much a part time job for someone...

Whos up for that?
Hmmm, I vote for Peter kang.


As much as I would love to volunteer for this position, I do not have the time nor the political knowledge. But if something is to start off, I'd support it.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 12:51   #14
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Originally Posted by Gerkraz View Post
Right, but firstly, we're not all writing to the same people, and secondly, we don't have to start the letter with "as a member of the ASC community"...you can address them as the citizen you are, can you not?

There is a false presumption here that anyone writing letters will be "speaking for the community" when in fact they might as well (and should, imo) speak for themselves.
One person is not a lobby..

You can certainly raise personal concerns.. this is your right.. no one has anything to say about who you write letters to about what.
As a concerned citizen.. it is your right..

It is also their right to ignore you....

To affect change or even to get attention you need to have an organization of like minded people .. who are likely to VOTE based on the issue at hand.
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Old March 20th, 2007, 13:28   #15
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Originally Posted by Dirty Deeds View Post
Scary is right, I've told close friends what I do, and I still get the "You're fuckin' nutz!" look, and these people know me personally. Imagine the thoughts of someone who has no clue who you are?

And I agree with the kicking and screeming part. Because as I see it, they WILL ban us, so we might as well let them know how we feel about it. Hit them while they are not ready for us, instead of reacting to what they do.

In my experience, the one who lands the first punch usually wins. I know it doesn't apply here, but I'd rather fight my rapist now, either than wait and see if he's serious or not.
+1. This leaving "heads in the sand" still leaves our arses up in the air for a good ol' fashion Government romping!
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