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Old March 1st, 2007, 09:48   #16
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- Well written Dracheous. - Okay, so, we're all big talkers, we all have our ideas and voice chatter. - Now the community wants to be pro-active.
I'd admit and say I'm a n00b. I've been in contact with people (through my work) from the CBSA (Canadian border service agency) just to see what I could do and get more of a feel of what we’re faced with (importing, etc.). - great fine, there's document's and law's that need to be hashed through and taken into consideration.
So, is it plausible that those in this forum that are in an area good with laws, good with writing – I don’t know, set up two forums? 1 that contains a letter that could go to officials, that everyone gets to see and gets a say in, that we can all work together on to hash and rehash out so it's worded properly and looks at all angles of the sport and legalities.. And the second forum is a start up of a Canadian based petition? ...
I dunno, maybe start actually working on something?
We could talk this “power to the softers” till everyone’s blue in the face, find it better to be pro-active in, of course a legal and not too over the top 'free airsoft now' aggressive way.. Responsible, legal..
Of course right at this moment I'm being a big dumbass hypocrite by not starting up anything that I noted above but being a n00b, Id rather not f'it up by going on some tirade that I don’t know too to much about yet..
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Old March 1st, 2007, 10:37   #17
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WHOA WHOA WHOA.

I think that if we got everyone in Canada together on one petition and one action we'd have a chance. We would have to move to get us seen as a minority group. We should also investigate going the route of being a "re-enacting" group, perhaps not a right out "re-enactment" as people can't seem to come together on that idea, but finding some niche where our sport fits. Sure, there is some re-acting to it, but theres also a lot of unorganized role playing to it too. And lastly we have to stress the point that this is a game, and a hobby to some ((gun doctors)). And the thing is we really have to look at the venues available to make it so that we appear as safe as the next guy, and those guys are our 'friendly' neighbors, paintballers.

And I know there are quite a few thousand people into this game, just look at how extensive this board's sign up is. And then there are people out there that do not sign up here and don't partake in this board. Heck at the last Quickpass in Rawdan there was 180 some people! That was one game that had people from Quebec and Ontario, but I'd wadger that alot of people were not there. There were a few from Ottawa that were not there, and Toronto probably had a large populous of their players not there. And thats not getting anyone from maritimes or going out west!


Even if there were somewhere from 1500-2000 names on this list. Thats 2000 people that we could perhaps have get PAL's, which is money in the governments pocket, and a way for them to legitimize everything. Or 2000 people that would be stimulating economy because we do buy goods for our game. We have retailers that deal in everything from consumables to the guns, and gear. Look at anyone thats gotten into this sport, how much money have they spent? This year alone I've probably spent a couple thousand on it alone, and thats a conservative estimate.

The biggest thing that those 2000 names would be, is that it'd show the public that there are 2000 men and women that play this sport with responsibility and safety in mind. Thats 2000 people that are just trying to have fun, but are getting looked bad upon, because little Timmy O'tool didn't get taught to play safe with the $40 toy gun he got at Canadian Tire or Walmart. But its not like those are the only 'toys' that kids are not being taught to use safely, just look at how many kids get stranded or drown out on ice flows with their snowmobile because they just didn't stay off the ice or stick to the marked crossings for snowmobiles? That's why there are licensing for those machines now. So if that means the PAL for us, then fine, but the thing sits that we need to appear responsible and an organized group to anyone that looks this way.
YOUR SOLUTION IS HERE... PLEASE READ, POST and SIGN:

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=35397

Thank you,
KaOz.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 10:41   #18
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Good job - any thought's on keeping it Canadian based only though?
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Old March 1st, 2007, 10:49   #19
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Good job - any thought's on keeping it Canadian based only though?
It is... but I also want others to sign it be it worldwide as well just because Australia is facing the same issues. This is not just happening to us... and if we can unite everyone... get the support of a large group of people... instead of 2000 get 20,000 then it says something.

In the end, we are fending for ourselves... but at this point as no one is acting and everyone is chatting... I figured the more support we get the better.

LESS TALK and MORE WALK people...

Cheers,
KaOz.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:57   #20
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seem's this discussions massive here and in the ASC's sell of forum, different people all saying the same, think Droc' n I are on the same boat with getting something well written and responsible out there. Best to flip between both threads, got some good point's in there and on this one.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:58   #21
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Whining and complaining in a forum, while relieving some stress, will do absolutely nothing to benefit the sport of airsoft.

The fight needs to be taken to those who can make a difference for us. Anything short of that is not enough.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 13:19   #22
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Actally I think if anything, there isnt any whining happening - more or less Kaoz is being a bit more active, from what I know he's talking to people etc and will try to go down the right avenues.. lol someone finally decides to try something and voices go quiet and people turn tail and hide.. go fig..
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Old March 1st, 2007, 13:21   #23
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Whining and complaining in a forum, while relieving some stress, will do absolutely nothing to benefit the sport of airsoft.

The fight needs to be taken to those who can make a difference for us. Anything short of that is not enough.
Ageed... so why not sign the petition and pass it along to how many people you know.

I will change some of the wording so as not to call it a petition but use a more general term so as not to seem so "closed off"... like we are fighting for our lives here - after all, the axe hasn't fallen just yet.

Cheers,
KaOz.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 13:30   #24
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If noone has noticed, the parliament is open right now.... so please write to your members of Parliment, explain the situation.

I mean Steven Harper's office mailing address is on his website.... mail him (note that mailing is much more effective than emailing)

I think a broad approach should be taken: Letters to MP's, the PM and oppositions, and mostly, to the CBSA... Send Ottawa representitives to meet them in person! Any person who looks at this very website realizes that airsoft in Canada can be regulated effectively, it is possible to make it work

How about the mailing address to the President of CBSA?

Mr. Alain Jolicoeur
President of the CBSA
Ottawa ON K1A 0L8

Just to note: looks like CBSA has closed the grey area, its in their work code now under Airsoft
http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d19-1...tml#P133_21776
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your right,when it rains the burger joint across the street does have cats for 4.99$ but that doesnt mean that i can just go get all the grape jelly i want

Last edited by diamond_SEA; March 1st, 2007 at 13:37.. Reason: added address and link to code
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Old March 1st, 2007, 15:51   #25
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Ageed... so why not sign the petition and pass it along to how many people you know.

I will change some of the wording so as not to call it a petition but use a more general term so as not to seem so "closed off"... like we are fighting for our lives here - after all, the axe hasn't fallen just yet.

Cheers,
KaOz.
If that's how we are going to fight for our lives, than we are in serious trouble. That is one poorly drafted "petition".

I would also reccommend against a broad based unco-ordinated letter writing campaign. For this to be effective theres must one message, and everyone must be "on message" every time they speak out or communicate.

LD

PS- United we stand divided we fall did not originate with Marx, but the last guy we should be quoting or mentioning on this issue is Karl Marx.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:15   #26
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Hey sorry, I might not have been clear with the letter part of it.. I ment to have those that are really good with legal matters and law enforcement, law's, policitics etc sort of be the main one's to draft something up. But I think too, since we're individuals within a community, that we get to see and get a say in what this letter or how this petition/letter might be presented - so yes, one voice one main person (or a small group who, again, are good at this stuff, cause if it was me doing this id be just like 'um yay to airsoft?' -) -

anyway, i forgot what i was saying - oh, so yeah, get the old timers, and those that know more about this to group it all together, but post it up in a forum so those in the community can see what' would be said and if they wanted, could add in their thoughts (which may or may not get added to the letter in question - if this ever pans out) but atleast its not one person hiding in their basement then all of a sudden everyone finds out they did stuff - and im rambling, 3 pm office brain-crash.. hopefully this makes a bit of sense and i dont sound like a total twit..
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:22   #27
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If that's how we are going to fight for our lives, than we are in serious trouble. That is one poorly drafted "petition".

I would also reccommend against a broad based unco-ordinated letter writing campaign. For this to be effective theres must one message, and everyone must be "on message" every time they speak out or communicate.

LD

PS- United we stand divided we fall did not originate with Marx, but the last guy we should be quoting or mentioning on this issue is Karl Marx.
Okay, I agree... I am at fault for writing something in such a spontaneous manner in the wee-hours, apologies to everyone at ASC for that.

Pleae understand that I am not trying to start a war here with people or be flamed, I am just trying to get the ball rolling... I have always hated sitting and doing nothing for these sort of situations (this is not the first - the first was with GTRCanada which I co-founded due to importation laws/regulations and insurance companies not validating the vehicles that were brought in legally).

As for the statement I made "united we... etc" yes you are correct, it is however usually attributed to a Marxist belief. I will leave it at that.

Cheers,
KaOz.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:30   #28
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If that's how we are going to fight for our lives, than we are in serious trouble. That is one poorly drafted "petition".

I would also reccommend against a broad based unco-ordinated letter writing campaign. For this to be effective theres must one message, and everyone must be "on message" every time they speak out or communicate.

LD

PS- United we stand divided we fall did not originate with Marx, but the last guy we should be quoting or mentioning on this issue is Karl Marx.

Which is why I've been calling for the revival of CAC (Canadian Airsoft Coalition) for how long now?

At this point, I hope to have a section set up for CAC on WP's new website when it comes up (soon we hope), as a place we can use for posting of form letters for MPs, a copy of the options paper, and if possible a media kit.

At this point, i would also be nice to get some of the former members of CAC (namley KD, you were invaluable) and Peter Kang back around here. I don't give a shit what you think about his bussinesses, but Peter has had a LOT of dealings with CBSA and other agencies over the years. I imagine his information would be invaluable.

I would ask that people please hold off on mailing MPs until we have a general form letter re-drafted. I would also ask that anyone under the age of 18 please refrain from contacting ANYONE regarding this. The last thing we want is for the government, or other gov't agencies to be thinking that we are a bunch of minors (who incidently, can't vote or purchase AS) who just want this kit to cause trouble.

- Goldman
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Old March 1st, 2007, 17:54   #29
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I would ask that people please hold off on mailing MPs until we have a general form letter re-drafted. I would also ask that anyone under the age of 18 please refrain from contacting ANYONE regarding this. The last thing we want is for the government, or other gov't agencies to be thinking that we are a bunch of minors (who incidently, can't vote or purchase AS) who just want this kit to cause trouble.

- Goldman
Good idea, i was just trying to motivate someone.... it would be nice if I got a chance to airsoft before it was too late... i mean i only have a few months to go, and i already have all the gear. But i agree... active members should be the ones to do this, im just giving my input

But just on the CBSA website, i noticed is seemed that they added a specific reference to airsoft in the firearms importation laws naming them specifically replica firearms... doesnt this close the grey area and require a new license for the importers?
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your right,when it rains the burger joint across the street does have cats for 4.99$ but that doesnt mean that i can just go get all the grape jelly i want
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Old March 1st, 2007, 18:26   #30
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Originally Posted by Lawdog View Post
If that's how we are going to fight for our lives, than we are in serious trouble. That is one poorly drafted "petition".

I would also reccommend against a broad based unco-ordinated letter writing campaign. For this to be effective theres must one message, and everyone must be "on message" every time they speak out or communicate.

LD

PS- United we stand divided we fall did not originate with Marx, but the last guy we should be quoting or mentioning on this issue is Karl Marx.
My thoughts exactly.

I'm worried that someone will run into this too quickly without a well thought out BROAD plan which will sour our cause due to a 'poor first impression.'

Lets get organized with the help of people who have a clue how to approach these types of issues.

I sure Lawdog may have a pretty good idea about what types of resources we will need.
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