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ASCA - Sale of final AEG stock

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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:06   #76
Manaconda
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Scarecrow, thank you finally some one who can articulate what I was tring to say.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:22   #77
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Airsoft draws many....odd people to it...many people who you dont want fighting to keep airsoft going because they will just do more harm then good.
Its true. We had people before who were about to gear up and go protest on Parliament Hill...Ill bet the soccer moms would love that.

Trying to convince soccer moms and a gun scared society is a loosing battle these days. We can scream responsibility all we want, but every week we see new articles about negative airsoft(related) incidents in the news.

Its hard to be adult males who dress up and run around with toy guns to come accross as anything but Kimveer Gill look alikes.

Keeping airsoft low-key has worked for over a decade. And the fact that things are going to shit now has nothing to do with our lack of action. Your never going to convince a society whos biggest concern is safety that replica assault rifles are a good thing. The crackdown train is coming, and all we can do is slow it down.

Its true, we could get the word out about how responsible we are, but all it takes for all of ASCs responsibility to be blown out of the water is one bad headline.

Every airsofter in the country still only makes up a small percentage, and against the public safety groups, we are fucked.

To avoid coming across as a bunch of gun crazy psychopaths, I say we do what we have done before. Have the best and brightest of the community send out prepared letters to the correct people.

I doubt that it would help, but its always a good thing to address the issues with your MPs. HOWEVER, if thats the case, Id say our top dogs...say hojo, scarecrow, lawdog, etc. prepare a letter that can be released to the community and then sent out individually to MPs...something well written, only the facts etc.
Be better then an MP getting "OMGzor, ban my gun and I pwn ur ass" in an email.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:31   #78
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I am just actually heading out the door to have lunch with Hojo and get up to speed on his angle on things. I obviously have both a hobbiest interest at stake here like all of you, and (what is worse?) I just put an order in for about $7000USD of BB product for the upcoming season, so, I have a lot at stake from that point of view as well (frankly I could have spent that money on a new car).

I am prepared to work on behalf of the community, as well as my own interests, in trying to represent our point of view. I am just not sure at this stage who we talk to or what avenue to take and I am loathe to speak on behalf of this community without its majority consent. I've railed against that in the past and I won't be speak for people who don't feel I represent their viewpoint accurately or take a high risk position if the majority of people feel the potential risks outweigh the rewards.

I think despite the online cantankerous nature of this board, the way ASC Armory went about the 18+ approach to sales and the general concern always expressed about safety and keeping the AEGs, GBBs and AEPs out of the hands of would-be baddies will stand us in good favor. I just don't know if its enough to overcome the rabid hoplophobia rampant in the media and at the political levels in this country and no matter what we do, as Droc says, you can't spin this hobby as soccer-mom friendly. The very images we create and try to portray are the very ones that everyone is scared to death of.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:40   #79
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I am just actually heading out the door to have lunch with Hojo and get up to speed on his angle on things. I obviously have both a hobbiest interest at stake here like all of you, and (what is worse?) I just put an order in for about $7000USD of BB product for the upcoming season, so, I have a lot at stake from that point of view as well (frankly I could have spent that money on a new car).

I am prepared to work on behalf of the community, as well as my own interests, in trying to represent our point of view. I am just not sure at this stage who we talk to or what avenue to take and I am loathe to speak on behalf of this community without its majority consent. I've railed against that in the past and I won't be speak for people who don't feel I represent their viewpoint accurately or take a high risk position if the majority of people feel the potential risks outweigh the rewards.

I think despite the online cantankerous nature of this board, the way ASC Armory went about the 18+ approach to sales and the general concern always expressed about safety and keeping the AEGs, GBBs and AEPs out of the hands of would-be baddies will stand us in good favor. I just don't know if its enough to overcome the rabid hoplophobia rampant in the media and at the political levels in this country and no matter what we do, as Droc says, you can't spin this hobby as soccer-mom friendly. The very images we create and try to portray are the very ones that everyone is scared to death of.
I think to satisfy peoples need to do something the writing the MP thing may be a good start.
But like I babbled about earlier, Id much prefer a professionally prepared letter that we can all send to our respective MPs to prevent any backfire.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:48   #80
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We have some members here with political lobbying background who have come forward as well, so I think you're right Droc, I think hitting our MPs with our point of view is the starting point.

What I think we need to get clarity on is, is this raid part of a wider CBSA effort, and is local law enforcement helping them to that end, OR are we seeing a general crackdown that will eventually lead to individual players being harrassed. As I said I don't know anything for sure and I am just as in the dark as the rest of you. We need to watch the press conference for that bust in Markham very closely to see which way the wind is blowing. The last thing we want is individual players being targetted with a new law enforcement interpretation and cleanup initiative.

The content of such a letter will be dictated in part by what we see in the next little while.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 12:57   #81
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If this letter is ever written, I can translate it for our brothers and sister in Québec. I have a degree in translation and did rather well in the legal translation class. Unless someone with more experience and knowledge comes forward, in which case I defer to his/her expertise.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 13:00   #82
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For Droc, Scarecrow, HJ and the rest, couldnt agree more, from point's of keeping passive and in the shadows, to not wanting to sound like flaming pro-gun violence freaks and all. There's two threads going at the same time on this, think if anything it be good to pool those that have heavy legal and I guess political? backgrounds to make sure everything's voiced properly.
I'm all for pro-activeness forsure, but the kind that's peaceful, productive and does get thing's done without making us look nuts.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 14:06   #83
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Where is kd when you need him. He walways pops up in talks like this.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 15:36   #84
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A&A airsoft is going to have a SHITLOAD of business now
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Old March 1st, 2007, 15:49   #85
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Scarecrow - I'm all for what you're saying and will be supporting whatever the most senior levelheaded members such as yourself think is a good avenue to pursue. If that means sending a prescripted letter to my MP, consider it done. If it mean travelling to sign a petition, done. One thing I won't do is give up and call Airsoft dead. Consider this just another MILSIM, and we need some intel and our officers to come up with a plan. You'll have everyone's support.

F3 is behind you.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:05   #86
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I would just like to clarify that people are saying that if more dangerous bb guns aren't under the law of PAL, then y should airsoft be? it is because they are easy to obtain and are considered replica firearms and are being used to rob banks and things like htat, its not the power, its the look... Please don't post the world is over comments... all this is doing is making people with no experience with the law panic, just relax and wait for HoJo
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:16   #87
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ASCA decided that in light of recent events (well a few months ago, and if you're in Toronto, yesterday), enforcement of the laws that concern the sale of replicas is increasing. There is no clean-cut way to sell airsoft in Canada with the laws written the way they are, and I agree - without retail outlets of any kind airsoft will wither away (or grow absurdly slowly, at best) in this country.

It's time that sale and/or ownership is legislated in such a way as to allow players to continue enjoying the sport, but that also satisfies the requirements of the government, and the peace of mind of law enforcement.

I'd like to start this discussion elsewhere than this thread, but my opinion is that there is no other reasonable alternative than to have airsoft classified under the PAL as a non-registered, non-restricted entity, which would control sale and ownership exclusively to and from licensed individuals and businesses.

It may seem like a pain in the ass, but the likelihood is that airsoft is going to get buried under blanket anti-replica legislation sometime in the next 5 years. But even before then, retailers are at risk, and even if it isn't outright banned, lack of supply will just kill this sport here.
I'm one of the Admins from Atlantic Airsoft out east. If theres anything we can do let us know. I'm sure you have been or will be in touch with bean.

We have been thinking for a while now about putting together some sort of package that could be presented to our local governments (NB, PEI and NS). I guess now would be a good time to get this done.

Being the only retailer of BB's in the maritimes i also stand a lot to lose other than the greatest hobby ever.

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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:42   #88
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I am what you guys would call a noob but i've had an airsoft gun for a solid 4 years,(even though its clear, it was the only thing available in my area), and really i was only getting into the sport side of things and contemplating a nice AEG instead of my sad crosman but this thing is gonna put up serious walls for me and any new player wanting to start playing so im saying its completely retarded for them to put a law on them for one they arent real firearms and PAL's are for fire arms, two who really wants to go take a course to own a u gun that shoots bbs and three its not fair at all
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Old March 1st, 2007, 16:58   #89
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Originally Posted by travisvotour View Post
I would just like to clarify that people are saying that if more dangerous bb guns aren't under the law of PAL, then y should airsoft be? it is because they are easy to obtain and are considered replica firearms and are being used to rob banks and things like htat, its not the power, its the look... Please don't post the world is over comments... all this is doing is making people with no experience with the law panic, just relax and wait for HoJo
Total posts by this guy 5, date joined Jan 2007.... nuff said?
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Old March 1st, 2007, 17:00   #90
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Originally Posted by travisvotour View Post
I would just like to clarify that people are saying that if more dangerous bb guns aren't under the law of PAL, then y should airsoft be? it is because they are easy to obtain and are considered replica firearms and are being used to rob banks and things like htat, its not the power, its the look... Please don't post the world is over comments... all this is doing is making people with no experience with the law panic, just relax and wait for HoJo
i cant even remember the last time a bank was robbed in canada let alone using an airsoft gun. i understand the point you are trying to make in the fact that these look real and could be used for that. but stating that as a fact is only adding to the confusion right now.

If you have proof please proove me wrong. im not trying to be a dick but a lot of people are getting panicy right now and theres no reason for it.
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