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Old March 4th, 2007, 03:35   #166
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Sorry for my misunderstanding of the PAL. All clear now. Just a quick question, i was reading through this: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/...html#P145_4714 And in here is classifies "Replica Weapons" as a "Prohibited device" in Canada, so does that mean that it is illegal to own a "replica weapon" (essentially rendering all airsoft guns illegal?) Just wondering if someone could clarify this for me, because if this is the case, it doesn't matter what we do, we're fucked.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 03:53   #167
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Sorry for my misunderstanding of the PAL. All clear now. Just a quick question, i was reading through this: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/...html#P145_4714 And in here is classifies "Replica Weapons" as a "Prohibited device" in Canada, so does that mean that it is illegal to own a "replica weapon" (essentially rendering all airsoft guns illegal?) Just wondering if someone could clarify this for me, because if this is the case, it doesn't matter what we do, we're fucked.
nah i think it only includes importing, not owning.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:05   #168
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I mentioned this in another thread.

If airsoft is classed under replica, and we fight to have airsoft acquisition under PAL, doesn't this open the flood-gate or somewhat precedence to allow people to acquire real steel replicas?
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:10   #169
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Sorry for my misunderstanding of the PAL. All clear now. Just a quick question, i was reading through this: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/...html#P145_4714 And in here is classifies "Replica Weapons" as a "Prohibited device" in Canada, so does that mean that it is illegal to own a "replica weapon" (essentially rendering all airsoft guns illegal?) Just wondering if someone could clarify this for me, because if this is the case, it doesn't matter what we do, we're fucked.
The link you provided is from CBSA, so that deals with importaion/exportation.

Here's the one you should read:
http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/replica_e.asp

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As an individual, you may keep any replicas that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess a replica firearm and it does not have to be registered. However, you cannot acquire, make or import a replica firearm. If you take a replica firearm out of Canada, you cannot bring it back in.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:13   #170
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But even still, i don't see the threat from weapons that cannot be modified to fire live or blank ammunition. But if that route fails, then one option might be to class airsoft in the same group as pellet guns/airguns, because essentially airsoft guns are the same (a means of projecting a small object, in our case a plastic bb as opposed to a lead or copper pellet or bb) :S


Oh and just to clarify, as of this moment ASC has 14,870 registered users, so not exactly a small number. And remember there are many players who are not registered on ASC, if we included players on local forums the number would be higher.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:25   #171
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But even still, i don't see the threat from weapons that cannot be modified to fire live or blank ammunition. But if that route fails, then one option might be to class airsoft in the same group as pellet guns/airguns, because essentially airsoft guns are the same (a means of projecting a small object, in our case a plastic bb as opposed to a lead or copper pellet or bb) :S


Oh and just to clarify, as of this moment ASC has 14,870 registered users, so not exactly a small number. And remember there are many players who are not registered on ASC, if we included players on local forums the number would be higher.
It's the gov't's "major step" to stop gun violence to please soccer moms.

Without replicas on the streets, they can fire at will against people who are carrying firearms without much aftermath instead of "RCMP killed suspect with toy gun" on major headlines across the country.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 04:39   #172
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"Imitation" is the word. Even the Brits call them that. Stop using the "R" word please...

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=28737
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Old March 4th, 2007, 10:03   #173
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12 pages and 3 days later..........just a bunch of arguing and chest thumping. It would be nice to actually see what, if anything, is being done to address the concerns of the community. Are the admins on this board taking control of this situation, if so, step up and tell people what's going on. If not, let them know so others may step up to the challenge.

Just a thought....
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Old March 4th, 2007, 12:49   #174
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no PAL. Im not paying $150 and spending a weekend studying to own a fuckin toy. I plan on getting one anyways but why for airsoft? Then again im not a chairsoftin collector so what do I care
IMO $150 would be a cheap, one time cost to keep this sport alive.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 13:30   #175
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no PAL. Im not paying $150 and spending a weekend studying to own a fuckin toy. I plan on getting one anyways but why for airsoft? Then again im not a chairsoftin collector so what do I care
You won't pay $150 to own and play with a toy, but you will spend upwards of $500-1,000+ to actually purchase this same toy? Does that make sense?

Funny how people are like someone said thumping their chest at this issue and well, when they need to step up to the plate or in this case, asked if they would be willing to take the PAL course and pay the fee for the sports' well being - they bitch and moan.

IT IS EITHER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER - you can't have it both! *Unfortunately*

Cheers,
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Old March 4th, 2007, 13:32   #176
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Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
12 pages and 3 days later..........just a bunch of arguing and chest thumping. It would be nice to actually see what, if anything, is being done to address the concerns of the community. Are the admins on this board taking control of this situation, if so, step up and tell people what's going on. If not, let them know so others may step up to the challenge.

Just a thought....
Been saying the same thing for the past week... there goes one week and probably a few more before anything is done (if that)... I make a simple online petition to get the community involved and instead I get a couple of jerk-offs signing false names and get flammed on the board! Gotta love ASC and some of it's members, no?

*We want our sport to stay alive... oh but I have to pay or possibly do something about it?... I think I'll stick to computer games*... HA!

Cheers,
KaOz.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 14:00   #177
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Online petitions are about as worthless at it can get, that's probably why people are making fun of it :P
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Old March 4th, 2007, 14:51   #178
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Online petitions hold no weight with politicians.

Besides, methods utilized to actually influence politicians are one of the last steps in the process of lobbying. You kind of have to start like:

1) Identifying exact nature of problem (if there is one)
2) Identifying and agreeing on the best solution and several fall back solutions
3) Drafting and preparing the message needed to be delivered to get the desired results
4) Identifying all the means of delivering the message
5) Evaluate and cost the items under 4) above
6) Budget and choose methods to be used (yup they all cost)
7) Allocate resouces (fundraising is a seperate process)
8) Get all leaders fully trained on the message and how to deliver it
9) Draft materials for leave-behinds and other efforts
10) release materials to participants
11) Carefully track, monitor and direct all lobbying efforts.

Let me tell one story out of school. I have been lobbying for OTLA for years. We do all this crap. One day I go to a meeting with a key MPP who we need to influence and he tells me he had a meeting with one of our members who was one of his constituents who told him something a little different than our message and goals. He is all over us about sending mixed messages and having to get our house in order before we can really ask the government to act. It took us months (and some serious coin) to undo the damage he had done.

The lesson to be learned is that discipline is key to lobbying.

If you want to do something RIGHT NOW, the best thing that you can do is start putting together local organizations that maintain some lists of members, real names and addresses, and skills that they can contibute when we need to roll out the message. You can even drink beer and brainstorm and keep notes of your ideas. If we have many local organizations in place with members, communications and funds put together facilitates everything. Then we simply co-op all the local organizations into the larger organization when the time is right and then you already have provincial bodies and local captains ready to work when the message is crafted and ready to deliver. Right now building the grassroots organizations is the right step, not going off half cocked.

That's why an individual who within 36 hours or so of indentifying the "crisis" skips the first ten steps and promises amazing results within a week does not impress me.

RLD
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Old March 4th, 2007, 14:56   #179
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Didn't they try some form of licencing for crossbows many moons ago? I think it was going to be $60 for 5 years, but it was never brought into force. What if they did the same sort of thing for any airgun or airsoft related guns?

Although if the government couldn't get it done for crossbows, they probably might not want to bother with airsoft.. but it's worth a shot.

I personally think it would help if airguns and airsoft were lumped together into a single category. When some people think about airguns, they think about kids shooting tin cans and that boy from the Christmas Story who almost shot his eye out. Lately the word airsoft = replica firearms, idiots using them irresponsibly, and are sometimes used in crimes. Not a very positive image.

It's easy for most people here (ASC) to act responsibly when it comes to airsoft, but it's other people actions that ruin it for all. Whether it be dumb kids or those who wish to use them to commit crimes. I agree with those who think some type of licencing might be the answer.

Regardless, whatever is to be done.. it needs to start now.
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Old March 4th, 2007, 16:13   #180
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Didn't they try some form of licencing for crossbows many moons ago? I think it was going to be $60 for 5 years, but it was never brought into force. What if they did the same sort of thing for any airgun or airsoft related guns?

Although if the government couldn't get it done for crossbows, they probably might not want to bother with airsoft.. but it's worth a shot.

I personally think it would help if airguns and airsoft were lumped together into a single category. When some people think about airguns, they think about kids shooting tin cans and that boy from the Christmas Story who almost shot his eye out. Lately the word airsoft = replica firearms, idiots using them irresponsibly, and are sometimes used in crimes. Not a very positive image.

It's easy for most people here (ASC) to act responsibly when it comes to airsoft, but it's other people actions that ruin it for all. Whether it be dumb kids or those who wish to use them to commit crimes. I agree with those who think some type of licencing might be the answer.

Regardless, whatever is to be done.. it needs to start now.
The trouble with that ... is we are not talking about a new classification for airsoft...

Both airguns and Replicas are currently Proscribed under current laws..

Airsoft guns are both airguns ( not restricted ) and Replicas ( prohibited)

So what we are talking about is having some sort of " special status " for airsoft guns outside of the current Law.

The Brits solved this problem with "Written in" defenses for trade and possession of replicas ( or Realistic Imitations as they call them) based on a "legitimate need" clause in the law. our law has no provision for written in defenses.. The legitimate need for individuals in the UK is for historical re-enactment.. it is the same law that allows people to own swords and spears and bows in the UK all which are illegal under the law.

Our law places the "legitimate need" provision on the transfer end of things.. and requires both the transferer and the transferee to have a business Firearms License..

For example it is ok for a licensed business to sell replicas to another licensed business... a legal importer can sell replicas to a prop house for example.. or to a movie armourer.. or to a training facility.. both entities have a "legitimate need"

the issue is that individuals have no "legitimate need" for replicas in the perception of the Law in Canada.. so access to replicas is legally out of reach for individuals. Which is the intent of the law..

We are talking about changing the law to allow individuals access to replicas... this would be a reversal of the government position that has been in place since 1998 when replicas were specifically proscribed to eliminate that access.

This would be exactly the same as asking the government to reverse their position on proscribing "assault rifles" as prohibited.. why would they? because some people would like to own them? Because their hobby happens to be the collecting and shooting of Assault rifles.. and because they want to they should be allowed?
Not likely...
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