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Old January 28th, 2007, 09:20   #31
Greylocks
 
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No child, I will just use the system already in place here for kids like you.

You PM'd me saying all kinds of stupid things, now it's my turn to ask what YOUR contributions are? It's easy to check your 8 posts; all show extreme brilliance and knowledge we cant possibly be without.

How about YOU make an effort to follow our rules? Or are they too hard? Or are you too young to admit you are out of your league?
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Old January 28th, 2007, 14:21   #32
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Man I think you should re-read the laws, there is no law that states you cannot discharge an unrestricted firearm on your on property.
Awesome. So that means I can fire off a gun from the balcony of my highrise apartment?


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U gonna tell mommy again grey locks??


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Old January 28th, 2007, 15:18   #33
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^
watched that for a minute or so, didn't do anything but when I watched it everything started to move after awhile, now im dizzy.

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Old January 28th, 2007, 15:21   #34
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Awesome. So that means I can fire off a gun from the balcony of my highrise apartment?
This is totally different.

But if you want too go ahead!
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Old January 28th, 2007, 19:01   #35
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Originally Posted by Garandfreak_surplus View Post
This is totally different.

But if you want too go ahead!
Actually, no, it's not different. Unless you made all kinds of arrangements you cant discharge a real firearm anywhere you want. Your property, if allowed, needs to be a certain size and setup in certain ways.

You MUST follow federal, provincial and in most cases municipal laws to see if it's allowed first.

Even if you are allowed to fire a real gun, you cant apply those laws to airsoft. One does not lead to the other. Read up on the replica laws.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 22:14   #36
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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
Even if you are allowed to fire a real gun, you cant apply those laws to airsoft. One does not lead to the other. Read up on the replica laws.
O.k. firstly, yes I realize this for the second time I've told you. Read my first post's you will find that I wasn't saying having a minors gives me any right to own an airsoft gun.
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ya I know im just trying to prove that I'am responsible, and not some 15 year old punk that wants to go hold up a store.
And lastly Yes their is a huge difference here. Discharging a firearm in a largely populated area is a whole lot different then on a 180 acre woodlot in a rural area. YOU re-read the laws again and show me where it says I have to get provincial/municipal/etc. consent before doing so.
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Old January 28th, 2007, 22:14   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
And unless your property is licensed and insured as a gun range, you cant shoot real guns there either.
Sorry, but you're just plain wrong on this one. There aren't too many ducks, moose and deer hanging around the local gun club. Likewise, there is no insurance on Crown Land, where hunting is generally permitted, and the only license you need is a PAL and a hunting permit (if you're hunting). If you're going to make a statement that's "absolute", you can't turn around later and say "Oh of course, we're not talking about hunting".

On Private property, outside city limits, target shooting is perfectly acceptable and legal, presuming no other provincial, local or municipal laws are broken in the process.

The only way your statement can be given ANY kind of credence is with regard to RESTRICTED firearms, which may only be TRANSPORTED under ATT, to a Provincially recognised and accredited firearms range. Having said that, you cannot discharge a restricted firearm anywhere other than a range that is certified for that purpose.

For someone with as much exposure to firearms as you declare, I'm surprised to see this statement coming from you. And please, don't use the original intent of the post concerning airsoft to deflect from the point that you've stated, as an absolute, something that is completely false.

Droc - taking pot shots off your balcony is covered under various other parts of firearms law, but I think you knew that. Target shooting on private property outside city limits is perfectly legal. You don't need any special permits or licenses (beyond PAL and registration certs for your firearms), you don't have to call anyone, you don't have to get permission from the police or the local government, you just have to be safe about it because you're responsible for where the rounds end up.


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And lastly Yes their is a huge difference here. Discharging a firearm in a largely populated area is a whole lot different then on a 180 acre woodlot in a rural area. YOU re-read the laws again and show me where it says I have to get provincial/municipal/etc. consent before doing so.
Yep. Unless there's a municipal bylaw prohibiting discharge, or at certain times, but you're bang on here.
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what if it model after his?

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Old January 28th, 2007, 22:53   #38
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Sigh.

You can hunt with a Permit. If you are going to shoot a real gun, you need either a permit, or the authorization of whoever runs the local municipality that allows the land you are on to be used for that purpose.
The shooting area becomes a range, in pretty much all legal definitions. You need a PAL (or the equivalent for youths), at least.

So one way or another, you need permission from whoever is responsible for the land even if you own it or the Crown owns it.

That's the basics for real guns.

Airsoft is another problem; not real guns, not airguns, allowed or banned depending on how folks feel that day. Normally considered Replicas with all the rules attached.

That means Joe Teenager cannot own one. He/she cant use one without supervision. Where Replicas can be used is obscure but better left to areas approved by the authorities. We all go through the precautions anyway.

Shooting with buddies, among teenagers, with Replicas they are not legally allowed to have, is a recipy for disaster. No matter where it happens.

Real guns should not even be mentioned by the teens hoping it makes a difference. It does not.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 00:20   #39
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Im done posting here, if you want to drag this on then fine. You know you're wrong admit it or not, im done posting here.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 02:12   #40
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Im done posting here, if you want to drag this on then fine. You know you're wrong admit it or not, im done posting here.
hahaha
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Old January 29th, 2007, 12:08   #41
MadMorbius
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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
Sigh.

You can hunt with a Permit. If you are going to shoot a real gun, you need either a permit, or the authorization of whoever runs the local municipality that allows the land you are on to be used for that purpose.
The shooting area becomes a range, in pretty much all legal definitions. You need a PAL (or the equivalent for youths), at least.

So one way or another, you need permission from whoever is responsible for the land even if you own it or the Crown owns it.
Do you turn your head around while you backpedal?

You said categorically that you couldn't shoot real guns on private property without it being licenced as a gun range and insured as such. That's patently false. Now you're adding to that statement to make your original false statement credible.

This kid is a legal firearms owner and user, and has demonstrated an accurate understanding of firearms law. You, in your self-professed expert status as a long-time firearms owner and user, have made statements that are contrary to the law Sure, they don't relate to airsoft in the same way, but he's RIGHT, you're WRONG, so back the fuck off him.
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what if it model after his?
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Old January 29th, 2007, 12:28   #42
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wow we're missing the point here. kid says he's going to paintball until he's 18, that's got to be one of the most mature answers from a 16 year old i've heard on this forum yet! now, let's see if he keeps his promise, 2 years is a short wait, trust me. school and extracurricular activities will shorten the time immensely, trust.

and Greylocks, come on man. i've checked up on your posts and about 70% or more (i didn't bother browsing through them all) are quite harsh against new people. i mean, yeah, they should check the FAQ section and whatnot, but damn, what a way to turn off potential future airsofters!

it appears the 16 is right, so what, that's 1 VS your 41552764 times you were right, let it go.

and yes, i realize you might tear into me right after this, but the thread will probably be trashed soon. i hope.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 17:26   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
You can hunt with a Permit.
If you're going to be specific:

You require your Ontario Hunter Safety certificate to be a licensed hunter. You then need to buy the appropriate license for hunting and then tag for the specific animals in the appropriate season and WMU to hunt those animals.

Hunting on Crown Land is permitted unless in some areas and when not in other is usually due to municpal bylaws disallowing it (usually due to proximity to population). I've hunted in season in Simcoe County Forests after obtaining all the above licenses and a county license. This is a common practice in central Ontario. In northern Ontario, hunting on Crown land is generally a given, so long as it is in season and you have the appropriate licenses and tags.

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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
If you are going to shoot a real gun, you need either a permit, or the authorization of whoever runs the local municipality that allows the land you are on to be used for that purpose.
Unless explicitly disallowed by munciple bylaws (usually noise bylaws) this is wrong. If you own the land, you are permitted to shoot non-restricted firearms on that property. If you are a responsible shooter, you will ensure a proper and safe backstop, but, there is no law requiring you to apply for a napproved gun range to shoot on your own property unless you intend to run a club that allows shooting restricted firearms.

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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
The shooting area becomes a range, in pretty much all legal definitions. You need a PAL (or the equivalent for youths), at least.
No, the shooting area does NOT become a range by pretty much all legal definitions. A federally, provincially and municipally approved firearms range is entirely different from shooting on private property. How do I know? Because I've been closely involved for the last 3 years with the executive committee of my local gun club working to get our private property that we already shoot at recreationally for 35 years, approved for restricted firearms. Had we not wanted to shoot restricted firearms, we could leave the property as an unapproved range and continue to shoot at it unless the municipality specifically passed a bylaw to stop us. Its called 'recreational shooting' and it is permitted without any special licenses or permits.

By custom if there is more than one firearm and/or shooter, you may enact a range officer and follow range protocols to ensure the safety of all concerned. This does not constitute a legal range.

A PAL is a 'possession and acquisition license' and has nothing to do with allowing where you to shoot a gun, only that you can possess one or acquire one. I can take a non licensed individual onto my private property and supervise his shooting of my firearms, but I cannot loan or sell my firearm to him.

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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
So one way or another, you need permission from whoever is responsible for the land even if you own it or the Crown owns it.
No, you do not need permission if you own it. You grant yourself permission as a recreational shooter and shoot safely in accordance with your provincial firearms training which exams you passed that tell you how to handle a firearm safely and where it is permitted to shoot.

If the Crown owns the land, the rules for that tract of land will be available at the local municiple office and additional information about use of that section of Crown land for hunting can be obtained through the same method. How do I know? Because I am a hunter and I hunt up in the Parry Sound region for black bear each year and have done precisely what I described to comply with the law. I have surrendered my licenses and permits for inspection by Ministry Conservation Officers on more than one occasion and have been found to be in compliance in all cases.

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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
That's the basics for real guns.
No its entirely inaccurate information about real guns. If you're going to hand out advice on the basis of being an expert, then get the expertise first. You've claimed for years here that you're a licensed gun owner. Based on the information you've given out here, I am now questioning that fact because you've done nothing more than perpetuate ignorant mythologies about gun ownership and shooting in Canada. Go sign up on Canadiangunnutz.com and ask the numerous licensed owners over there, the laws are quite clear and referenceable. I am sure many of them would be shocked to hear that in your opinion they've been breaking laws by shooting on their private property for the past 70 years.

If you are a licensed owner, then you are woefully ignorant and have a responsibility to update yourself. If you're not, stop posing as an expert.

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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
Airsoft is another problem; not real guns, not airguns, allowed or banned depending on how folks feel that day. Normally considered Replicas with all the rules attached.

That means Joe Teenager cannot own one. He/she cant use one without supervision. Where Replicas can be used is obscure but better left to areas approved by the authorities. We all go through the precautions anyway.

Shooting with buddies, among teenagers, with Replicas they are not legally allowed to have, is a recipy for disaster. No matter where it happens.

Real guns should not even be mentioned by the teens hoping it makes a difference. It does not.
50% opinion and 50% self-regulating community guidelines.
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Last edited by Scarecrow; January 29th, 2007 at 17:48..
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Old January 29th, 2007, 17:48   #44
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Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post
Sigh.

You can hunt with a Permit. If you are going to shoot a real gun, you need either a permit, or the authorization of whoever runs the local municipality that allows the land you are on to be used for that purpose.
The shooting area becomes a range, in pretty much all legal definitions. You need a PAL (or the equivalent for youths), at least.

So one way or another, you need permission from whoever is responsible for the land even if you own it or the Crown owns it.

That's the basics for real guns.
Sigh is right...stick to Airsoft FAQs Grey. You know fuck all about firearms laws and I don't appreciate you spreading bullshit to a bunch of rookies. Garandfreak_surplus is way ahead of you on this one.

Scarecrow is right clean across the board as usual. PLEASE if anyone is going to take anything away from this post related to real firearms, read Morb and Scarecrows posts and then go look up the law for yourself. The firearms regulations and law in this province and country are RETARDED and CONFUSING to say the least and it takes more than owning and shooting firearms to navigate them.

If you have any questions, find a gun club close to you. The executive are always happy to answer questions, (whether you are interested in joining or not) and if they DON'T know they have the channels to find out.

What are my credentials? I am a director at my club, and help run it. I am one of the ones working to get our currently private land turned into a range.


Just to casue some more shit, I can tell you that there is NO black letter law that says a restricted firearm HAS to be discharged at a range certified by the CFO. But the CFO will never grant you an ATT to take it anywhere but a certified range.

There is grey law on shooting a restricted on your own property in a safe manner, but it hasn't been tested. That's why it's grey.
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Old January 29th, 2007, 18:16   #45
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
No, the shooting area does NOT become a range by pretty much all legal definitions. A federally, provincially and municipally approved firearms range is entirely different from shooting on private property. How do I know? Because I've been closely involved for the last 3 years with the executive committee of my local gun club working to get our private property that we already shoot at recreationally for 35 years, approved for restricted firearms. Had we not wanted to shoot restricted firearms, we could leave the property as an unapproved range and continue to shoot at it unless the municipality specifically passed a bylaw to stop us. Its called 'recreational shooting' and it is permitted without any special licenses or permits.
Oh yeah, and by the way, if your club also subscribes its members to the CSSA, they are automatically insured ($1,000,000 liability) at all your club's ranges, both private property or federally approved range. Just thought I'd mention it before you go onto the insurance issue. Thats also another good reason for CSSA membership, aside from fighting for your firearms rights.
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