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Old January 19th, 2007, 10:18   #31
frankiet
 
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Join Date: May 2006
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Lucky... First of all, I do agree with much of what you say with regard to the communities stance of keeping quiet. Your example of what gun control resulted in was an excellent point. I know you're frustrated, but attacks on moderators isn't going to help your cause. It is their choice what they want us to read. It's their right to censor what they want. Sometimes we agree with it, sometimes we don't. They have a tough job keeping this place running and attempting to present a mature airsoft community. You may not agree, but it is their show to run. The little video at http://www.calnra.com/video/anatomy1.wmv was interesting, but not quite valid as to our case. It just showcases possible motivations for passing certain laws/ordinances, but in a different country.

Greylocks... Age verification has a purpose; the prevention of selling airsoft guns to minors. Using it here against Lucky isn't useful. Whether he is as old as he says in his profile is irrelevant. He has valid arguements, know matter how old he is. Unless someone is specifically trying to buy an airsoft gun, there is no point in getting age verified. And getting age verified isn't easy. A friend of mine has come with me to ASCA more than once, and gone through the process. Even after several calls and messages, he still isn't age verified, because Miles gets busy. Bottom line, don't disregard, or attempt to downplay someone's arguements based on age or verification. On another point, I agree with you that airsoft is not dying (not yet at least), and it is somewhat due to our discretion.

Keeping airsoft discrete is valuable, but we shouldn't keep it hidden entirely as some in this community hope to do. I personally know bankers, police officers and even an Ontario Supreme Court judge who like airsoft. With the current news, it's obviously going to become more well known. The piece at TTAC3 wasn't bad either. I think we just have to get the right people involved. Maybe it's time we get some MPs involved. Ontario MPs would be less likely to be sympathetic right off the bat, but maybe Lucky (or anybody out west), since you want to get the ball rolling, should get a Calgary MP involved. They have the power to write law, and they are really the only people we should be concentrating on. Soccer moms on the other hand... soccer season is over, and they're probably itching for a cause. Maybe they shouldn't be brought into the loop just yet.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 13:48   #32
Greylocks
 
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The point I am trying to make is, I hope, clear. And also note that this is far from new.
(I am aware about the gun laws. I have legally owned guns, restricted, and prohibited, for close to 30 years now).

Problem number 1 with airsoft; there are no clear laws about them. They are either banned, or replicas, or a bit of both.
It is not illegal to own a replica. True. Buying one IS a problem. Nice catch based on no clear laws.

The gun culture in Canada, in any form, has near ZERO support. Fact.
Getting a normal firearm is difficult, but not impossible, because there are checks and balances in place that require effort to fulfill.
Since getting a real gun is a problem based both on political correctness bullshit backed by Laws and fear, mentioning anything that is not even clearly legalized IS a problem.

Second problem based on perceptions; we are using Replicas of Prohibited or completely banned items. If regular guns are badly seen, forget machine guns.

You wind up lobbying against an entire anti-gun culture backed by laws.

Fact; laws about airsoft are unclear at best.
Fact; current political views are against it, rabidly.
Fact; there are far from enough of us to even start anything.

IF we had clear laws, and a large lobby group (and history) of reenactors to come on board with us, we might have a chance. We dont have either.

So if you really want to start being recognized, I have a suggestion that would be fairly easy to start; to call ourselves REENACTORS in the formal sense of the word and recreate modern battles, tactics, etc as much as the musketry enthusiasts do.
For modern battles, we need 'modern' guns.
That would mean we'd immediately have a perfectly legal reason to purchase replicas for historical purposes, and as long as we'd open games to visitors we could legally say we are Teaching about battles and tactics, equipment, etc.

That's how you do it. Not by bitching at MP's or writing letters.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 14:19   #33
Luckyorwhat
 
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frankiet I don't know what I'd put in the letter. They'd reply back, "What do you want me to do about it?" and I'd not mind advice on what to say. I helped the provincial MLA on his campaign so I'd even be able to get a word in there.


Greylocks, that's what I like to hear! Along those lines I talked to the RCMP boss in my area last fall, inquiring if I could import replicas based on being involved in theatrical productions. He said that an outdoor game, even with a script and extras and cameramen, was not enough to be called a production. The element he advised would be needed was a production company. Just something that might be useful, maybe one could even start their own company and get it done like that.

P.S. I'll edit the post to not call anyone stupid, wasn't proper.

P.P.S. I wish I could get prohibs, it's costing $100 to get a K-frame re-barreled to >4", and it's a good price (but a long wait).
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Old January 19th, 2007, 14:30   #34
frankiet
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greylocks View Post

That's how you do it. Not by bitching at MP's or writing letters.
I disagree. That's the ONLY way to do it. To get anything done legally, you must involve Parliment. The CFC, CBSA, RCMP, and even the justice system cannot make up laws or change the CCC. Sure, they can choose not to enforce them, but that's what they're doing already. You need to get support from the people we voted into office. We can claim we're Re-Enactors, Starship Troopers, whatever, but unless somebody actually changes anything in the CCC, we are still in the same position.

As for your question Lucky. Invite them to an airsoft game (now to be known as MRE - see another thread on that). Anybody in their right mind will see that we're not a bunch of YAHOOs. We're responsible, and promote safety. As much as we hate paintball, it's legal. Draw some parallels to it, but show that what we do is far more controlled and responsible. Just a thought.

Last edited by frankiet; January 19th, 2007 at 15:54..
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Old January 19th, 2007, 15:39   #35
Greylocks
 
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You'd be surprised what being officially seen as a re-enactor can help with.

It's called playing the same political games they do, but sending their attention somewhere else.

When going against does not work, just change directions. It's been done before, we'd just have to do the same thing.
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