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Old January 18th, 2007, 15:34   #16
deltaop1
 
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I agree with Brian's comments above. The 'easiest' crackdown approach for the police to take would be to have Canadian Customs make it extremely difficult to import airsoft weapons into Canada and have police 'pressure' Canadian vendors to stop selling replicas. This would stop the flow of airsoft replicas and cure the problem over time.

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Old January 18th, 2007, 15:43   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
This is true... but just what do you think can be done about it?

Do you think that a letter writing blitz by a fractured community stating basically " don't make them illegal we like to shoot each other with them"
is going to hold much water?
Well it worked in the UK didn't it? I think the only way we could secure airsoft in Canada (because lets face it, it isn't exactly solid, we are treading on very thin ice it would seem) is to have airsoft written into legislation. Just stick a one liner at the bottom of the bill, doesn't take much and then treat them as real firearms if there is an encounter with the law. If you are fucking stupid enough to commit a crime with a replica/airsoft gun, then you deserve to be shot...sort the wheat from the chaff.

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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
We as a community have to illustrate that we have zero tolerance for abuse.. and are advocates for strong enforcement of existing laws.
This i aggree with totally, but to be honest i think we need some form of definitive classification for airsoft weapons, not having airsoft fall into one category or another is just too confusing for both the powers that be and us as a community. If things were clear then we would have far fewer problems.

I mean lets face it, the public faces a far greater threat from real weapons. You can get hurt a hell of a lot more from some drugged up muppet with a needle and a plank of wood who is trying to rob you, than from some fuck tard with a gun that shoots plastic bb's!

I'm all for keeping airsoft safe, but i think the only way to do this in the long term is to have it classified in the law and how that happens would have to be discussed between the law makers and us as a community.

I think its bloody rediculous that in canada it is against the law to have replica weapons, but some idiot can pass a test and get his PAL.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 15:47   #18
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Brian I agree that a letter writing campaign isn't the way to go, but some sort of action is better then "let's just wait and see."

I don't know what the best solution is but I am sure there are people on ASC that do know what actions to take. The problem I see is that ASC is a standard for airsoft in canada and anytime anyone comes up with an idea the powers that be here at ASC trash the idea. It is a flawed system that doesn't support lobby development. Like you said Brian the community is fractured and that is the issue.

I am not trying to portray myself as someone that has the answers, i just think support from the community would bear more fruit.


Deltaop1 you stated This would stop the flow of airsoft replicas and cure the problem over time. Do you even play airsoft? you do understand what will happen to airsoft if you can't purchase AEGS
what happens when you want to buy a new AEG then?
Ya thats a Good Idea

This is only my 2 cents.... now flame away
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Old January 18th, 2007, 15:48   #19
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He was being sarcastic if you hadn't noticed...
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Old January 18th, 2007, 15:52   #20
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He was being sarcastic if you hadn't noticed...
i didn't and he gave no indication that he wasn't being serious
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Old January 18th, 2007, 16:46   #21
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Quote:
Do you think that a letter writing blitz by a fractured community stating basically " don't make them illegal we like to shoot each other with them"
is going to hold much water?
No, of course not. The best solution is to do nothing, and just hope that the police and gun-grabbers will leave you alone. It worked so well for firearm owners, right?

[SARCASM]
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Old January 18th, 2007, 17:43   #22
Brian McIlmoyle
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situation in UK is not the same

I have researched the Violent Crime Reduction Bill enacted in the last parliment of the UK

In that case the goverment of the UK very closely regulated imitation firearms and air guns.

The act brought air guns under the same restrictions as firearms and outlawed possession of realistic imitations outright. Including the manufacture modification and import of realistic Imitation firearms.

It also banned anything other than face to face sales of air guns.

This means that in the UK only licensed gun dealers can sell air guns and they can only sell them face to face, and all sales must be registered.

There is built into the legislation an exclusion for both possession and sale of realistic imitations. That is in the context of Theatrical or movie/televison production. And..Historical Re-enactment.

This same law restricted possesion and sale of knives and swords as well with the same loopholes.

So in the UK airsoft guns are absolutly banned ... except when they are allowed..
and the distinction of whether a law has been broken or if the possession and use in any one case contravines the law rests with the police.

The one large difference between the UK and Canada is the the status of airsoft guns is clear. They are proscribed as air guns and as realistic imitations of firearms.


Our own laws are much less restrictive as they stand now.

Our current legislation is written very different than the UK law..the status of airsoft guns is defined by what they are not.. not by what they are.

It is the fact that there is not a clear definition in the criminal code that allows these objects to trickle into canada and to end up in our possession more or less "legally" Tightening the definition will not loosen restrictions when the societial winds are blowing in the direction they are today.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 17:53   #23
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Well it worked in the UK didn't it? .
Not exactly, it was a concerted effort of the re-enactment community in the UK that had the exclusions written in to the bill. Airsofters piggy backed on that effort.

The re-enactment community in the UK is very large.. well organized, deeply established and very closely tied with tourism. So they have quite a lot more clout with lawmakers than the .001% of the population here that are airsofters.

It is wrongheaded to think that we can get an exclusion written in to law to preserve an activity that most people would think is against public interest.
Our situation is not analogous to the UK situation.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 19:38   #24
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Originally Posted by Luckyorwhat View Post
The forum gods have made it quite clear, there is no threat to airsoft, there never will be, and discussing it here is NOT allowed. Nor is any sort of activism like writing letters or such.

So Forget you ever saw that news story, and tow the freaking line.

(damn those moderators are so stupid)
/Political correctness

If you don't like the policies of this board or it's moderators, feel free to get the fuck out. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you leave.

Calling the moderators (or anyone else, for that matter) stupid simply because they disagree with your position on the matter, you are uninformed of what has been done in the past, and/or have not taken the time to go back and research the 5+ years of airsoft history in Canada on this discussion board is downright infantile.

If you're so gung-ho to get a "save airsoft" petition or letter-writing campaign going, don't sit here and bitch about how no one supports your idea.

Get off your ass and make it happen without us.

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Old January 18th, 2007, 20:02   #25
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The UK example is only partly useful.

In the UK there was proposed legislation that was going to committee and open to be modified. There is no such bill here.

In addition the regulatory exemption for airsoft which resulted in the UK is not much protection at all. All that can be said about the UK experience is that once the attack was commenced, they found a way to survive it.

It was a re-active move, not a pro-active one.

LD
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Old January 18th, 2007, 21:28   #26
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Just a loud thought but what if or maby it already is but World wide Sport. Dont know if that would help us but if it was looked on as a sport played by everyone eles in the world it might make it more acceptible.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 22:36   #27
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Originally Posted by Luckyorwhat View Post
The forum gods have made it quite clear, there is no threat to airsoft, there never will be, and discussing it here is NOT allowed. Nor is any sort of activism like writing letters or such.

So Forget you ever saw that news story, and tow the freaking line.

(damn those moderators are so stupid)
How about YOU follow some of the established rules and get yourself age-verified before bitching that some things are not done properly?

The rest has been said; inform yourself.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 23:52   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skruface View Post
/Political correctness

If you don't like the policies of this board or it's moderators, feel free to get the fuck out. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you leave.

Calling the moderators (or anyone else, for that matter) stupid simply because they disagree with your position on the matter, you are uninformed of what has been done in the past, and/or have not taken the time to go back and research the 5+ years of airsoft history in Canada on this discussion board is downright infantile.

If you're so gung-ho to get a "save airsoft" petition or letter-writing campaign going, don't sit here and bitch about how no one supports your idea.

Get off your ass and make it happen without us.

If you don't like the policies of this board or it's moderators, feel free to get the fuck out. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you leave.

I can't hear you, you've still got a lot of sand in your mouth, either keep your head down there or wash your mouth out before talking, buddy.

You think I've been hiding in the shadows here for the last 8 months? I got tired of the official policies, and I just dropped by to see how worked up people were about the new attempts to ban airsoft (which I learned about on other forums), and how I could help. Surprise surprise, nothing's changed.

Dude, you think that I didn't read all the 'stuff that's already been tried'? I read it, and it's NOT enough. Heck one deleted thread we were talking about hiring a lobbiest, but that sort of discussion is Verboten here.

Personally I think people like you who hide behind past efforts of other people from years ago are just lazy pigs. Feel free to brush the Dorito dust off your fingers before typing some more.

For Christ's sake. To be honest the sport is dying, and no-one who cares about it is going to step up and save it so I'm just moving on. I'll play in the summers until it gets banned outright, but I see it coming so I won't be surprised. Luckily I didn't spend too much money on airsoft guns, so when the hammer falls I won't be too deep in it.

I'm trying out NRA F-class, 3-gun matches this summer and IPSC, so there are other shooting sports out there, just more expensive and less active, and louder. Those guys and gals care enough about their sports to be pro-active.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greylocks
How about YOU follow some of the established rules and get yourself age-verified before bitching that some things are not done properly?

The rest has been said; inform yourself.
Lol, it's nice to have so many regulars drop by and tell us there is nothing to be worried about, it reinforces my point. Unfortunately my point isn't constructive - I'm not suggesting anything else be done (that gets a thread deleted too quick), I'm just complaining. And the thing I'm complaining about isn't procedural, it's the lack of activity. And the official policy discouraging activism


Just keep shooting your mouth off, you're an institution. I've tried several times, giving the written information to people at games, if it's not going to happen it's just not, no skin off my back. I can buy a shotgun from Marstar, but not a pellet pistol from ASC, heh to be honest it's cheaper to buy real steel and they last longer Probably saving me money.

Last edited by Luckyorwhat; January 18th, 2007 at 23:56..
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Old January 19th, 2007, 07:43   #29
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Seems in your zeal that you forgot something; when everyone tells you the same thing, maybe there's a reason for it.

Airsoft is not dying, it's DISCRETE and THAT is how it survives.

If the laws were clear, airsoft could be promoted far better (like the UK did), but they are not.

If they were clear, we could attract and promote with something to stand on.

Right now, we'd attract the attention of the authorities about something we're "maybe" supposed to have? Is that what you want?

That is why we're telling you and everyone to be quiet and patient. There are times when it's best to do that.

Look at real guns; it's a bitch to buy anything, there's tons of red-tape, but there IS red-tape that is clear to follow. Airsoft; no red-tape, no real laws, no classification, should not even be available.

If you cant understand the situation, I am sorry. Bitching wont change a single thing.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 09:37   #30
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Quote:
Seems in your zeal that you forgot something; when everyone tells you the same thing, maybe there's a reason for it.

Airsoft is not dying, it's DISCRETE and THAT is how it survives.
Tell yourself whatever you need to. You've got far more invested in the sport than I, so you'll suffer proportionally more for your folly. If your own self-interest can't motivate you I'm not going to try pep-talks.

When gun-grabbers start talking, you'd do best to listen. They talk a bit (trial balloon - gauge support/resistance), then they work behind the scenes, then the next you hear they're voting on a bill.

Firearms community tried the tactic of being good little Canadians - It Does Not Work. The gun-grabbers play for keeps, they're out for blood every day all day, they don't have mercy and they don't respect you or your hobby. They just start shouting at the top of their lungs, and if you don't holler back you lose the 'debate'. Their policies don't have to make sense, they don't have to have a specific purpose, it's enough that they could be a stepping-stone for a purpose, or that they could be a prelude to a policy that does make sense. They are vicious sneaky people, and they have nothing for you but contempt.

Here's a video of actual law being made, how simply it's done. calnra.com/video/anatomy1.wmv


Quote:
Right now, we'd attract the attention of the authorities about something we're "maybe" supposed to have? Is that what you want?
You've read the laws same as I have, you know possession is not a crime, and most firearm laws specifically do not apply to replicas.

Unauthorized possession of prohibited weapon or restricted weapon
(2) Subject to subsection (4) and section 98, every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition, unless the person is the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.



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That is why we're telling you and everyone to be quiet and patient. There are times when it's best to do that.
For Christ's sake, at least set up a fund for donations to help fight court cases or something. People WANT to help, WANT to be doing something. Like if Asia Pacific had a better lawyer, they could have fought when the gov't said the airsoft gun in the opthalmology journal was a different model then the ones in question, so the evidence was discarded. Even though the airsoft guns in question were MORE powerful than the one in the article which was to prove bodily harm could occur!


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Look at real guns; it's a bitch to buy anything, there's tons of red-tape, but there IS red-tape that is clear to follow.
That's a loaded statement, no gun owner is going to fall into the trap of saying it's not hard to buy a firearm Let me assure you that the process is thorough, but that most of the red tape comes at the beginning. Hopefully the new gov't will keep it's word and cancel the long-gun registry, though - not because it's too too great a delay, but because it's wrong on principle.

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Airsoft; no red-tape, no real laws, no classification, should not even be available.
Another loaded statement, things like that could do more harm than silly posed pictures.
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