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Old January 15th, 2007, 13:49   #46
Dracheous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I won't partiicpate in a debate. it has been done..

1. Airsoft is not mentioned in this piece, not once, there is no indication what so ever that the simulators that were used are "airsoft guns" only those familliar with them would recognize them as such.

2. Everyone that was there was asked if they wanted to participate, those that did not.. ( and there was a couple who did not wish to appear on camera ) were not shown on camera. Other than that.. everyone else was excited about the opportunity to "show their stuff".

3. This is not a "airsoft piece" This is a piece about the fighting arts collective, and our programs and approach to the study of martial arts including the use of firearms. Just because we happen to use airsoft guns does not make this a statement about anyone else that also happens to use airsoft guns.


The reporter who did this was interested in the Fighting arts Collective, in general, and our approach to including fireams in training specifically. I think he did a good job of presenting a balanced view and was successful in delivering the message that we hoped he would.

I already am fully aware of what some individuals may think of this... this has been made abundantly clear in the past and I feel no need to rehash it.

It is the people who choose to participate in our events and training that I concern myself with.



Well there goes all those arguments that he doesn't do it for the money or to get more people joining the "membership." Just a $20 fee for a one day membership, that's right and don't forget your textbooks to the next "study."
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Last edited by Dracheous; January 15th, 2007 at 13:53..
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Old January 15th, 2007, 13:56   #47
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:06   #48
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I go to TTAC all the time and I have never once heard Brian ask anyone for money at the end of the night. I doubt he opened TTAC to up thinking it was going to make him rich.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:12   #49
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The thing that has always made me laugh is that,Brian who is obviously not profit oriented gets downplayed. But a Large amount of people on here talk about there gun dealers like gods/pimps. ??
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:16   #50
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Brian doesn't run airsoft for the money, anyone who's played at TTAC3 knows that he does it for the enjoyment of the sport. If he was simply in it for the $$$, I doubt he'd be working till 12AM (or sometimes later) on Tues/Fri and Sundays when airsoft CQB sessions are held. Heck I've played games where there are only 4 people, hardly worth his time if his only motivation was money.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:39   #51
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Originally Posted by Colin_S View Post
Brian doesn't run airsoft for the money, anyone who's played at TTAC3 knows that he does it for the enjoyment of the sport. If he was simply in it for the $$$, I doubt he'd be working till 12AM (or sometimes later) on Tues/Fri and Sundays when airsoft CQB sessions are held. Heck I've played games where there are only 4 people, hardly worth his time if his only motivation was money.
I'm not sure anybody but Brian can really comment on his intentions for the Global piece.

Twenty dollars a head, over three days a week, over 4 weeks a month would make $2400 for an average of 10 participants (obviously sometimes more, sometimes less). Judging by the location of TTAC3, that would be a good chunk of the rent money. If you include the other martial arts aspects of the building, he's not doing too bad. But let's be honest, it is a business, and rightly so. He deserves every penny he makes, and I would do the same.

With respect to his love for airsoft... I don't think anybody can doubt he loves it. I don't think he has ever done anything intentionally to harm airsoft. Doing so would only screw himself.

Brian is in a unique situation where he is doing something he likes, and makes money in the process. I bet everybody wishes they were in that position.

Maybe he did the Global thing for the publicity. Maybe he did it to further the sport. Maybe both. He is running a business. If you don't like it, speak with your dollars and don't to go to TTAC3. If he did a disservice to the airsoft community, we'll know. He'll know. HIS business depends on it.

I personally don't like the piece. It could have been done better, but also could have been much worse. Once again, we wait.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:42   #52
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Originally Posted by amano999 View Post
I go to TTAC all the time and I have never once heard Brian ask anyone for money at the end of the night. I doubt he opened TTAC to up thinking it was going to make him rich.
You're right, but I have heard him say that if you're not satisfied with your experience, don't pay, but don't come back. This was directed to an ATQ1 class.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 14:57   #53
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I have been to three seperate ATQ1 class and have never heard Brian say don't come back. Not saying he did or did not say it, but I have always found Brian and Shawn to be really nice to noobs. I started playing at TTAC and they were always helpfull, when it comes to teaching skills to become a better player or offering a good old fashion blood bath.

My original comment was made to just say that I don't think TTAC is there cause Brian saw huge dollar signs.

Apples and oranges I guess.

Quote:
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You're right, but I have heard him say that if you're not satisfied with your experience, don't pay, but don't come back. This was directed to an ATQ1 class.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:01   #54
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I haven't been involved with any of the previous discussions, but I feel that I must say something here.

I think what we all want in the end, regardless of how it is done, to save Airsoft as a sport. I'm sure that we are all members on this forum because we love the sport. But like all Canadians, we like to sit on our rear ends and let others fight our battles for us. This is no different.

I am not defending Brian's actions because there is no need to do so. He has a martial arts club that happens to provide our community with a venue to play. I have played there several times myself. Yes, I have paid my $20 fee each time, but that's no different then going to Sgt. Splatter's and paying to use that facility as well. Brian has a business to run and it takes money to run it. Those who are opposed to this and are independently wealthy, please feel free to provide us with another venue, both indoor and outdoor.

As for the Gobal spot. I feel that any media attention is bad media attention. In Canada, we are gun shy. Politicians will do whatever it takes to win votes regardless of the outcome. Look at the gun registry. It did nothing to curb any gun violence. Any person with a cell in their brain will realize that the guns that kill people are not registered or stolen. The Chief's of Police support it because polictically, they have to.

Look at what happened when P. Kang fought his case. It forced the government to make a decision on something that was in the grey area for a reason. The government recognizes that Airsoft is in Canada and it is tolerated as long as there is nothing negative in the media about it. If we start to petition the government to make a solid decision, then we know what the outcome will be. It will be in favour of the voters and against us.

My opinion is just that, mine. Stay out of the media, out of the government eye, and continue to practice safe and fun Airsofting.

My two cents worth, for what it's worth.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:03   #55
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I just had a look at the piece and I have to say it was well done.

Brian did do it from the perspective of FAC and as an integrated part of what his facility and his organization offers. The report didn't mention the word "airsoft" at any time throughout the feature, which I think benefits them because it doesn't color them by other more negative reporting where "airsoft" is used to describe a GBB or or other gun some gang-banger had on him when he was arrested. Brian goes to lengths to describe something that is very hard to describe without the associated negative connetations - ie: how people can have an interest in a sport that in all respects resembles a socially negative and violent action, and put it into perspective as a potentially reasonable past time to be enjoyed by your average law abiding citizen. This is the same kind of early argument that won people over in paintball and made it a socially acceptable (to a degree) outlet for people and legitimized the sport.

I also think Brian HAS responded to this community's criticisms and it shows in this piece. He's not going to seek anyone's approval here for it, and I don't think I can blame him for that, as this community is so fragmented, its impossible to please anyone. Instead he's avoided discussing airsoft altogether, and wrappered combat simulation as part of his fighting arts collective, which existed before his association with this community. To say he doesn't have a right to promote that the way he wants to is like saying Hojo doesn't have a right to promote ASC Armoury on this website or that I don't have the right to have a BB website because it might cause Joe citizen to have a negative view of airsoft.

I also have to commend the Global reporting for including in the report a short discussion about WHY this sport is kept quiet and the fact that those who play it are sensitive to the optics of it to the average person. I think that was *excellent*. This shows that on the whole people who play the game are responsible and sensitive members of society and not some lunatic fringe.
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Last edited by Scarecrow; January 15th, 2007 at 19:57.. Reason: grammer
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:06   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amano999 View Post
I have been to three seperate ATQ1 class and have never heard Brian say don't come back. Not saying he did or did not say it, but I have always found Brian and Shawn to be really nice to noobs. I started playing at TTAC and they were always helpfull, when it comes to teaching skills to become a better player or offering a good old fashion blood bath.

My original comment was made to just say that I don't think TTAC is there cause Brian saw huge dollar signs.

Apples and oranges I guess.
And I've been to one class, and what I heard was...

A day membership is $20. If you don't like the experience, I don't expect you to pay, but I also don't expect to see you come back.

This makes perfect sense, and I'm not knocking his policy, because I agree with it, however, your original comment makes it sound like he doesn't care about the money. Maybe he doesn't say it in classes anymore. Maybe he's only said it the one time I've heard it. Every time I've gone, I've paid, and not once has he said, "You know what Frank, keep it buddy, I don't need it". Do you pay? I pay because I recognize that he is providing me with a service, just like I would when going to Wasaga. It is a business.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:12   #57
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A day membership is $20. If you don't like the experience, I don't expect you to pay, but I also don't expect to see you come back.
Its a value proposition, nothing more. He's confident that you'll enjoy his product and come back for more. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:17   #58
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Very true Scarecrow.Good to see some positive support.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:31   #59
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Originally Posted by Scarecrow View Post
Its a value proposition, nothing more. He's confident that you'll enjoy his product and come back for more. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Agreed. It's a great business practice.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 15:35   #60
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Though I havent seen this, I take scarecrow's word for it that Brian didn't fuck up (especially since some of his teammates have a strong negative stance toward his hosting).

At first I thought he was in for the money but after one of his first outdoor games I knew he wasn't. He gave us the option of not paying since he overheard me and someone else saying we didnt have a good time.
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