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Old December 3rd, 2006, 20:09   #1
DRAZ
 
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Newb w/ question about "real steel"

Hi, all. I'm new to the forum and thought I'd say hello.

Also, as a curiosity, I keep seeing posts in which there are references to posters owning a "real steel" (fill in the blank) and keep wondering to myself what is the mystique of having "real steel" grips, accessory rails, etc, etc.

Please, no offense, but have things gotten that bad in Canada relative to firearms ownership such that simply owning a part that may have been original to an actual functioning firearm or perhaps even an aftermarket part that was never mounted on an actual firearm is now a thing of wonder?

I knew firearms (RKBA) ownership laws are rather strict there in Canada, but I had no idea things were such that the mere ownership of a genuine firearms part now carries a lot of mystique.

Finally, I've browsed around some and from what I'm seeing many airsofters are paying what appear to be outrageous prices for replica firearms that fire plastic pellets. As a result, I'm curious as to what the average going price (in U.S. equivalent dollars) for a QUALITY airsoft "gun" would be in Canada.

Honest, no offense intended by any of these questions, but some of the posts on this site have left me in amazement and I'm realizing that our friends to the north have apparently completely lost their firearms rights. If that is the case, I'm hopeful that Canadians can somehow regain those rights.

This may seem silly, but as an American, I would rest much more comfortably knowing that our neighbors to the north had relatively unfettered access to firearms for a multitude of reasons that I'm not going to get into.

Thanks.

Last edited by DRAZ; December 3rd, 2006 at 20:18..
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 20:20   #2
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I've used real steel parts simply because they're often better quality, cheaper, and sometimes simply not available in airsoft form.

People mention them because they often aren't directly compatible with their airsoft counterpart; I had to spend hours grinding away at an AR charging handle latch to get it to fit the [considerably different] shape of the airsoft part. But given that nobody makes a drop-in tactical latch for airsoft, and since I wanted one, I have no choice. But now I have (or will have -- it still needs finishing and painting) a unique customization that just about no one else has, and to that I say "Neener neener!" :P

Besides, the real steel part was like $15, and if I'd gotten one made for airsoft it would have probably cost about $50.

Bottom line, why use a crappy repro part when you can use a real one.

The same is true, if you dig a bit more, with gear. While a lot of people are happy using cheapo repro gear, the more diehard folks are using real Eagle, Arktis, TT, Paraclete, HSGI, etc. Not cuz they're stopping real bullets or their lives depend on it, but simply because "it's better."


Edit:

You know the PERFECT example of why people use real steel parts is displayed in the gallery; there's a user (I think his name is "6ft4" or something along those lines) with an absolutely beautiful collection of G36s, and among other things he's using real rails/optics. As you may know, the made-for-airsoft optics on the G36 carry handles are kinda crappy, specially the red dots. So this fellow, using real steel, now has great looking and properly functioning guns.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 20:44   #3
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I dunno about most, but for myself I put "real steel" parts on my airsoft guns because they're made of stronger materials and can take more of a pounding than their airsoft counterparts. Prices for real and airsoft parts can vary but on the whole I've found they're relatively similar. And being similar, why not go with the stronger alternative? I'm not very gentle with my kit
As for firearms rights, they tend to change a little from time to time here but guns aren't unavailable. If our new government would do away with the silly gun registration the last government installed I'm sure that would make many people happy.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 21:05   #4
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Yes, material-wise, real steel parts are normally made of stronger stuff like forged steel, whereas airsoft parts are generally made of zinc-tin alloys, or lower-grade steels.

I have real steel parts on my AEG because sometimes it's harder to find the parts for airsoft guns.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 21:19   #5
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a very good AEG (think assault rifle) will usually run you around $600. why do we pay such high prices for plastic pellet shooters? well i like to think that it's because when i shoot someone with it, they won't die. it's fun playing with realistic weapons!
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 21:43   #6
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The reason why I personally play airsoft is because it is more realistic than paintball and it allows me to own all the firearms that are currently prohibited by Canadian law and aren't covered by my P.A.L (UZI's, AK's, MP5's etc). Canadian firearms laws are complicated so if your curious or would like clarification, I'll give you the same explination that I give all my customers who ask why they can not own the "real-steel" AK thats on my shelf.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 22:09   #7
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Interesting. I can understand buying the real deal for certain items if they are indeed cheaper, but I'm finding it hard to believe that Eagle Industries Nylon gear, for example, is somehow less expensive than many other alternatives for the sport.

I'm figuring your typical "load out" isn't going to weigh anywhere near what a real load out would and thus the necessity for world class nylon would be a little overkill.

As far as airsoft goes, I'm really not that familiar with it. Sure, I see the AS replicas at gunshows and other places from time-to-time, and while some of the weapons I've seen are pretty close to the real thing, most I've seen don't even come close. Perhaps you folks have access to much higher quality replicas than I've seen.

As far as prices go, $600 is pretty steep indeed. Heck, my first Sig P226 didn't cost much more than that (many years ago) and Glocks w/ Trijicon are typically less than that currently.

As for me, I don't own any AS, but I do believe that the sport could provide an excellent source of exercise if conducted properly. Down here, paint ball games are very popular, though I've not participated in those either. I've had to settle for training w/ simunitions for work, quarterly qualifications through work and instruction from Gunsite in Paulden Arizona many years ago.

But I'm thinking that either or both Airsoft and Paintball would provide beneficial additional training.

This is such a foreign concept to me (No guns). For example (not to brag) my inventory over the years has included:

1 - Sig P220 (.45ACP)
1 - Smith & Wesson 15 (.38 Special)
1 - Smith & Wesson 28 (.357 magnum)
1 - Wilson CQB .45ACP
1 - Les Baer Super Tac II (.45ACP)
1 - Les Baer SRP (.45ACP)
1 - Colt Combat Gov't. (.45ACP)
1 - Glock 23 (.40S&W)
2 - Colt 6721 M4 carbines (w/ 16" HB)
1 - Polytech Legend underfolder (7.62x39)
2 - Winchester 94 (.30-30)
1 - Winchester 70 (.30-06)
1 - Winchester 97 (12 Gauge)
1 - Winchester 12 (12 Gauge)
1 - Remington 11-87P (12 Gauge)
1 - Remington 870P (12 Gauge)
2 - Remington 760 (.30-06)
1 - Old .36 cal Kentucky long rifle (handed down through the generations)

Also, around five or six more handguns and rifles, like .22 plinkers of which I don't recall the brand / models. Now I wonder, are any of these legal in Canada???

Frankly, among many people I know, I really haven't owned that many firearms relative to their current / historical collections.

Far be it for me to dictate what Canada ought to do, but I find it a disgrace that the government doesn't trust its own citizens with a means to protect themselves and an honest sport that many can enjoy with the proper amount of training.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 22:27   #8
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Most of the list of your guns are legal in Canada. Any handgun in Canada with a barrell under 105mm (~4.25 inches) are considered prohibited and are unavailable to people who did not have a gun of that type legally registered in thier name prior to 1998. Those who did can still posess thier current ones and acquire new ones. This goes for any military semi-autos, converted autos, bullpup style rifles as well. Any handgun or semi auto assault rifle that has not been deemed prohibited is registered in the restricted class which anyone can acquire when they apply for thier Posession Acquisition License (P.A.L) These restricted ones are anything cool but manage to frighten mothers against everything (AR-15's mostly). People who own restricted weapons can only fire them at a designated shooting range and must have authority to transport paperwork in place before they leave the house. Once at the range thier firearms can only have 10rds in pistol magazines and 5rds in rifle magazines. From what I've heard around the gun shop that I am currently employed, there is a law stating that if you the firearms owner have 10 or more firearms in the house you are subject to random police searches whenever they see fit. Kindof silly no?
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 22:45   #9
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it's actually 4.05" or less that is prohibited.

I could go into a lot of depth here, and waste a whole heck of a lot of time on it, or I could go the easier route, and link you to the CFC website. The CFC is the regulatory body for firearms in Canada.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/default_e.asp

Here, you will find all the information about firearms, their classifications, and the laws reguarding them in Canada. Hope it helps you out a little.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 22:57   #10
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Originally Posted by DRAZ View Post
Interesting. I can understand buying the real deal for certain items if they are indeed cheaper, but I'm finding it hard to believe that Eagle Industries Nylon gear, for example, is somehow less expensive than many other alternatives for the sport.
And that's probably why you're puzzled by people spending for this stuff.

Like I said, it's not because anyone's life depends on it, but because it's better. You're happy playing with some repro vest, and that's fine. Many people are.

But others will pay the extra amount (sometimes quite a bit more) in order to get superior quality.

Look at it this way: a beater 82 Honda Civic will get you around town, but if you could, wouldn't you rather be riding a 2006 Mustang (or insert whatever your ride preference is)?

And you'd be back to the same argument again; why does anyone wanna buy a $40k car when you can get a $10k Hyundai that'll ride you around just the same?

The answer's just more intuitive when it comes to cars.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 01:13   #11
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that $600-odd was in $CAN

lol you're comparing a real steel pistol's price to an AS assault rifle's price? let's do some direct comparison.

Classic Army G36K: $311 US
HK G36K: goes used for $1100 - $1500 US.

Now an airsoft version of your SIG would cost in the area of $170 for a nice Tanaka version.

like Drake said, it's really a matter of personal preferance and deep pockets. and you live in the states, you can get whatever you want at asshat low prices. give airsoft a try lol, you can think of it as being as realistic as possible with zero flesh wounds!
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Old December 4th, 2006, 07:18   #12
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A comparison. Good quality GBB handgun; well over 350$ or close to $400. You can find a real handgun for that.
Assault capable rifle? Around $1000.

If you want to know more; complete your profile (add your location) and go see local people.

Real gun parts? As said, they are better built if they fit.

Amount of real guns owned? Trust me, you are not close to what some of us have. So it does not matter.

Get out there and meet folks.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 08:38   #13
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He's a yank, hence all the questions about gun laws and airsoft prices in Canada.
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Give your head a shake, man. You don't jump out of a shaky car so you can ride in one that's on fire.
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I also noticed for the first time that Bod sounds a lot like Jango Fett.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 08:57   #14
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Originally Posted by DRAZ View Post
Honest, no offense intended by any of these questions, but some of the posts on this site have left me in amazement and I'm realizing that our friends to the north have apparently completely lost their firearms rights. If that is the case, I'm hopeful that Canadians can somehow regain those rights.

This may seem silly, but as an American, I would rest much more comfortably knowing that our neighbors to the north had relatively unfettered access to firearms for a multitude of reasons that I'm not going to get into.

Thanks.
We never had firearms rights to begin with. Our Constitution does not have property rights built in - technically, we don't have the right to "own" anything, including firearms.

Canadians fall into an odd split when it comes to firearms - the population of the 7 provinces and territories West and North of Ontario generally support gun ownership, but they don't have the population (and thus, the votes, based on our electoral rules) to prevent a gun grab lobbied for by the urban anti-gun lobby of the major urban centers in Ontario + Quebec. It would be like if all of your states wanted something, but could be vetoed by California and New York because they have the highest urban populations in LA and NYC. Doesn't seem very fair, but that's the way our electoral system works - 13 provinces and territories, but generally only Quebec and Ontario get whatever they want when they want it......
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Old December 4th, 2006, 11:31   #15
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Hi DRAZ, welcome to ASC.

Everyone has essentially touched on why we look to more expensive, real deal parts and gear. You have to appreciate that half of airsoft is a fashion show, so if you've got the latest in high speed gear and accessories you'll be ahead of the game. Not that you're in competition with anyone, but people like admiring unique and cool stuff and let's face it, we like showing it off too (ie. your list of guns ).

Another comparison would be, why would you bother buying a SIG P220 when you could buy a Ruger P90, or a Wilson CQB versus an Imbel or Firestar? That might put it in better perspective for you. A lot of us own real guns too, heck my gun collection was at one time valued at more than anything else I owned (low five figures). My interests shifted, I sold most of my good stuff, and discovered airsoft. I have a couple of regrets but for the most part I'm enjoying the sport of airsoft as a whole a lot more than real shooting. It's a LOT cheaper on ammo, more dynamic and intense, and very diverse. And I've shot IDPA, IPSC, PPC, F-class, and other disciplines. I enjoyed them all but airsoft just offers that one extra factor of "combat" (and I use the term loosely) that none of the others can really touch.
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