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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:32   #16
Dracheous
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I wonder if Adrenline Junkies idea here couldn't do one better. Have our own section in the PAL. Restricted/Non-Restricted/Replica Airsoft.

That way we would be accountable on where and to who we buy our guns. No more retailers selling to minors and such. Also may open the possibility to import our own guns. Would have to go down to Customs to show ID and verify our license is up to date and such to retreive the package. And for those who don't want to be bothered with having to go to Customs themselves can deal through Retailers who still need to verify that the card is legit. We could have people in the community who retailers trust to be able to visually verify such a card so that a retailer could send it off. Mind you that would re-open the chances of someone slipping through the cracks. But would create a way to inforce such actions to be punishable. More so than just not getting a slot on the retailers list here at the top of the forums.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:45   #17
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Yes, thats almost exactly the kind of thing we need. a problem I could see with that though, would be to get all the dealers on board, im sure that the majority of them would not have a problem with it, but some that sell the low end airsoft guns (ie springers) might have a problem with it because it would take away almost all of there sales.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:45   #18
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Originally Posted by Adreniline Junky
Maybe what we could do, is to find member with legal experience, to create a proposal on how we could police ourselves, with a system kind of like a PAL like Dracheous suggested, but only that it applies to airsoft guns, not real guns. petition it to all members of the community. then bring it to the federal goverment. this would both show the goverment that we are a large group of mature members. and that, we are fully able to impliment a rule that will help to stop all the sales of guns to irrisponible people.
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Originally Posted by Dracheous
I wonder if Adrenline Junkies idea here couldn't do one better. Have our own section in the PAL. Restricted/Non-Restricted/Replica Airsoft.
Sorry, what you are suggesting just isn't feasible under the current federal government scenario.

The problem with both of these ideas is that it would require a legislative amendment to the Act, and it's not likely that we could get this onto the legislative agenda for the upcoming session or any session following thereafter so long as the federal government is still dealing with a minority parliament.

The federal government is unwilling to re-open the Act since they couldn't pass amendments through with the seats they have. I doubt they'd get past second reading on anything. As a result, there's only the possibility of proposing things that could be done by regulation or an OIC through existing authorities in the Act.

Unfortunately, both of these mechanisms only allow opportunities to make things worse for airsoft, not better. For example, the entire recreational shooting community in Canada and the entire sport of airsoft, by extension, could be struck down and rendered prohibited overnight by means of an OIC.

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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:50   #19
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Originally Posted by Adreniline Junky
Yes, thats almost exactly the kind of thing we need. a problem I could see with that though, would be to get all the dealers on board
Again, it's not an issue of the airsoft retailers or anyone else on this particular board.

Look, I appreciate your sentiment, but what you're proposing requires quite a substantial legislative amendment, and unless you've got an idea to get us on the legislative agenda, and it would have to be a fast track too since there's the possibility of another federal election soon, and the ability to pass such amendments through the house in a minority parliament, you're out of luck.

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Old September 17th, 2006, 19:37   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracheous

The only thing I see presented to the "table" thus far that "COULD" be inforced and put into action is the requirement of a PAL to purchase the guns and ammo. This way the "back ground checks" are done by government people who are supposed to weed out who should and who shouldn't be trusted with fire arms. If we can't trust the real thing in their hands why a toy that looks just as much like the real thing?
Even such a system has it's flaws. The Dawson College shooter used a registered weapon during his siege. He had a PAL, yet was still on the cop's most watched list.

In this case we need an 18+ law for everything (as previously discussed by Greylocks in another post). WE should aswell start informing the general public about our activities. Airsoft is not well known and quite often it's associated with the dreaded SoftAir or even Paintball. As a community, we should start by introducing ASC. On these forums, there exists a system that could help law enforcers monitor frauds, crimes and transactions. Such a system... well in fact, it's the community in its entirety. Through communication we managed to identify frodulent dealers, faked identities and we also established guide lines on how we need to act to keep our community safe, aswell as enjoyable.


These cases of raids and bans are all related to misinformation. Clearly displaying our organisational values, our sport, aswell as methods to control future crimes... Lets face it, with the experience of some of our members, ASC is not only a association, it's also the leading authority on Airsoft in Canada. Some have been here from the beginning, as for myself, I'm new to the sport, but our goal is common: To make our Sport/Hobby safe, and most importantly, fun for the general public.

Information was always the best tool to use against faulty politics.

WE also need to make retailers know, that it is we who make the rules, as we control the future of their commerce. 18+ = service only.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 20:16   #21
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Originally Posted by CanKam
WE also need to make retailers know, that it is we who make the rules, as we control the future of their commerce. 18+ = service only.
That is an excellent sentiment, but for most people, it remains just that. No matter how loud the "vote with your wallet, only shop at 18+ retailers" horn is blared, enough legal-age airsofters with no spines, and minors exist to keep these shady retailers in business.

Another reason why I'm not to broken up over Peter Kang's business getting the once over (yet again) - he's a disease on the community who has time and time again tried to shut other retailers out of the business through intimidation. Also, he's not only sold to, but actively encouraged purchasing of airsoft weapons by minors.

The system we have here on ASC is working amazingly well, considering it's built upon the efforts of a handful of volunteers (you know who you are) who naver get any thanks, and now one major retailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanKam
In this case we need an 18+ law for everything (as previously discussed by Greylocks in another post).
This is an interested point with alot of merit to it. One could very well argue, what is the point of restricting sales of aeg's/gbb's, but not accessories like mags etc, when there are (apparently) plentiful sources for airsoft weapons.

Once a minor has , let's say, a CA AK their fucktard parents (sorry, but I feel really passionate on this issue, sorry if I offend anyone's delicate sensibilities) bought for them.

Now they are golden, because ASC serves as a ready place for them to stock up on the required ancillary gear they need to play.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 20:44   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanKam
In this case we need an 18+ law for everything (as previously discussed by Greylocks in another post).
This is an interested point with alot of merit to it. One could very well argue, what is the point of restricting sales of aeg's/gbb's, but not accessories like mags etc, when there are (apparently) plentiful sources for airsoft weapons.

Once a minor has , let's say, a CA AK their fucktard parents (sorry, but I feel really passionate on this issue, sorry if I offend anyone's delicate sensibilities) bought for them.

Now they are golden, because ASC serves as a ready place for them to stock up on the required ancillary gear they need to play.
Well, ASC COULD be one of their shopping spots, but when it comes to accessories, majority of them aren't restricted item. So the kid with the fucktard parents (I share the same feelings on this topic) could easily just buy the accessories off ebay or any other HK or US retail sites. Though I doubt too many will oppose to restricting 18+ sales only in the section.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 07:44   #23
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With an 18+ law, parents fall under the law for every action their child takes with their airsoft launcher. If airsoft is legally restricted to 18+, parents who buy for their children accept the fact that they can be trialed under the same article as "Selling alcohol to a minor". Although do to the physical appearance of an airsoft launcher, the law could be enforced to the point that all parents can be trialed under a new article with stronger conviction ("Selling/purchasing of a replica firearm for a minor" thus fraud).
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Old September 18th, 2006, 08:12   #24
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It's too bad for many, but... Over 18 for everything solves pretty much all our problems.

And like having the right to vote, waiting wont kill anyone. Yes, I can see all the teens bitching soon.

As was said, it would also clarify Legal Responsibilities for the parents; then it's their ass.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 09:31   #25
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My daugher is turning 14 this october and I am going to be letting her play. but can tell you because I am an airsoft parent and involved in the sport just a little bit.

She has shot them, and shoots better then some guys out there. But she know and has posed on my forum that she uses DAD's M4.

Sales should be 18+ Games should be if you are under 18 your fokes better be there playing or watching. so THEY can pack THERE gun.

trying to deal with this age thing is like trying to deal with cheaters. They are there and will always be there.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 19:23   #26
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Foxtail, parents like you are not the problem; you not only supervise your daughter, you're there with her. The guns are your property too.

If it was done like that all the time, there would be no issues. But this is not the case.

How many teens do we get here every week asking for guns behind their parent's backs?
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Old September 18th, 2006, 19:30   #27
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Im for +18 all the way, no bullshit work-arounds. In a perfect world, all retailers would go +18, but really, few give a rats ass...when the bottom line comes into the picture, a sale is a sale.
Personally, aside from bawbag and some of his friends, I dont want to see guns in the hands of minors or minors at games. If its gonna be a kids game like McDonalds fun land, dont expect serious airsofters to play.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 19:44   #28
Dracheous
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Originally Posted by Droc
Im for +18 all the way, no bullshit work-arounds.


Personally, aside from bawbag and some of his friends, I dont want to see guns in the hands of minors or minors at games. .


Sorry Droc, but no work arounds what so ever?


18+ period sounds fair to me though.
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Old September 18th, 2006, 19:58   #29
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I really see your point's guy's. But think of this a paintball gun can be bought by anyone well a walmart one can and you can do more damage to property with a stock paint ball gun rather than a stock airsoft gun right?

As a 16 year old teenager all my comments will proably get thrashed and bashed by you older folk's which of course I dont mind. Just think of it like this just because you been verified doesn't make the person anybetter than any one else. A 32 year old male or female could be worse than a 16 year old kid. Don't take it as me bitching I just like the fact of I can go play a sport with a bunch of people and I am or just as good as them but nine times out of ten I listen to what there telling me because I would rather play the sport and keep it well than have to watch in the sidelines.

Also about the whole parents thing it's a good idea but, my mother almost died recently due to some heart matter's and my dad would rather take care of her than playairsoft with me, not to mention i've been around guns most of my life my father being a tank driver and my uncle being the medic then turned SAR tech. I have a hi-respect for anytype of gun and I treat it as I would if it was a serious moment, which I know most 16 kids who play with me tend to say because we know as a minior were on thin ice to begin with. So I say this because of one or two idoits im treated the same way as them?

Anyway's thats just my 2 cents and thanks for takeing the time to read it. And sorry for thoese mistakes of spelling and grammer long long day of school today.

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Old September 18th, 2006, 21:15   #30
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Rusty, the thing you and most others under 18 never seem to look at in your arguments; at 18 you become Legally Responsible for your own behavior.

If you are immature and dumb after 18, YOU pay for it, not your mom. Until then, someone else pays for your mistakes.

Look at voting; you can read a lot about politics, stay informed, learn, even participate in various ways but you cant vote until you are 18.
Does that stop you from gaining knowledge? No. But no matter how mature or educated you are on the subject, you still cant vote.

The law says that replicas (as airsoft tend to be seen) CANT be purchased OR owned unless you are 18. There is no loophole.

Being mature and responsible means respecting the laws, for starters. All of them, not just the convenient ones.
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