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Old September 17th, 2006, 03:38   #1
Canadian Psycho
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An Idea for the community

I have been thinking that lately, with all the proposed bans and rumored raids going around, it might be time to look at a new way to police our community, which would show the goverment that they don't need to ban the resale of our guns. and stop us from playing.

What I am thinking of, is to get all retailers to go to private sales only, like what A&A airsoft is doing, but have it so that, like the age verification thing, to buy a gun you need to attend at least one game, and have the leader of that club/group, who would be a appointed judge like guy, "verify" that he is responible and mature, and of couse, of age. Then have all retailers make sure before they sell a gun to someone, that they recive a e-mail from that club owner saying that this person is responible and mature airsofter, and that he is able to buy a gun. this would, in esential, stop parents from buying there kids guns becasue more then likely the parents would not go to the fuss of attending a local game. the only flaw in this plan would be to get all retailers on board.


Please don't flame me, I am just trying to bring a new idea to the table, please feel free to point out any flaws or what not. also, I do realize that there are some members working with the local goverments to bring our sport more into the main stream, but I think that we, as a community must show the goverment that we can police ourselves.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 03:41   #2
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good luck with getting retailers on board, and that still won't mean that the borderservices will stop their random raids. If it will help I m on board, with trying to do something rather than nothing.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 04:58   #3
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Quite honestly, most of the retailers have an account on ASC here. They can easily take advantage of the Age Verification system here via PMs.

However, the bigger problems remain on softair from CDN Tire and Wal Mart. It's not hard for a kid to nag their parents everytime to buy them a Crosman from CT or Wal Mart.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 05:38   #4
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I believe what the thephenom is trying to say, and he/she would be correct in saying so, is that this isn't a feasible idea, largely due to enforcement and logistical concerns. However, it's also not clear what you're trying to do and why you're trying to do it.

Consider that since such a system would be self-imposed, it would have no enforcement mechanism. There's also the added complication of an administrative workload that would be taken on by a select few for the purposes of trying to impose something that would have no clear benefit.

While age verification on the part of ASC is certainly a first step in terms of displaying the value of personal responsibility, anyone could tell you that it doesn't actually accomplish the objective of encouraging it in others, i.e. we can only govern our own behaviour, not the behaviour of others.

Even if we could impose such a system, it is not clear what benefit we would receive. For example, what objective is it that you're trying to accomplish? And if your goal is to take a position on the personal responsibility of airsofters, who are you trying to demonstrate that to? To what end?

If you really want to help the situation, I had provided my thoughts on doing so in another thread.

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Old September 17th, 2006, 12:33   #5
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Well what I see with my Idea, is that if we could stop the sales of the good airsoft guns to kids who just get there parents to buy them for the kid, and people who have no intent to play at games, it would stop alot of the immature adults who just want to shoot each other in their backyards or something along those lines. the enforcement problem could be solved with a contract style thing, where once you get "verifyed" by the local club runner, you sign a contract that basiclly says that you will only use the gun for use at games, and will not buy guns for others. if we got the majority of the community behind this, it would not be very hard to inforce, or to impliment.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 13:15   #6
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Someone attending one game doesn't mean shit, but it would mean that someone has to volunteer their day to follow the person around during a game and watch them like a hawk. There is no problem with sharing ideas and it's appreciated, but this particular one is really not practical.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 13:19   #7
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The problem is like Phenom said, really hard to impliment and enforce.

If you were to cut down the retailers available market to only those that this forum "Age Verify" when they them selves can check a drivers license. Not to mention that it has happened in the past where people HAVE been age verified here and that status removed because of actions they have made later. No matter what we do for this forum its not going to be perfect and the same is for the rest of the country. There is always going to be some dumb jerk to screw things up.


The only thing I see presented to the "table" thus far that "COULD" be inforced and put into action is the requirement of a PAL to purchase the guns and ammo. This way the "back ground checks" are done by government people who are supposed to weed out who should and who shouldn't be trusted with fire arms. If we can't trust the real thing in their hands why a toy that looks just as much like the real thing?

This also wouldn't cut down their clientel to who we say is legal. It would yes affect sales for a while, because not every airsofter here has their PAL. But its not a hard thing to get people, and it is identification. Don't know about the rest of the provinces, but here in Ontario they keep removing different cards from forms of identification. Last to be cut was the Health Card and someone had told me that the SIN cards may be next. Don't know how true that is, but its getting smaller and smaller in your wallet as to what is an ID. Besides my Passport, PAL and Drivers license there is nothing else i can use as valid ID here.

I say we go with the easy tactics, inforce the PAL license which already exists.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 13:30   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracheous
The only thing I see presented to the "table" thus far that "COULD" be inforced and put into action is the requirement of a PAL to purchase the guns and ammo. This way the "back ground checks" are done by government people who are supposed to weed out who should and who shouldn't be trusted with fire arms.
Up until recently I have had ZERO interest in getting my PAL. The only reason I want one now is so I can legally purchase/own real firearms. The idea of a PAL being required to own/use a toy is totally absurd.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 13:37   #9
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Lets invent a AOL (Airsoft Ownership License) Where you have to be 18+ and get put into a databank with a number that retailers can search to see if your ok to own airsoft.






Im joking i just thought aol was funny
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Old September 17th, 2006, 13:44   #10
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Well Freedom Fighter, I said it was the only thing I've seen thus far that COULD be inforced. It already exists, its already in place and its not that hard to show, they send you this nice little card with your face on it and everything!


I see your point about it being for a Toy, but at the same time there are air rifles out there that people could possibly require one of these for. But like I said, in the end it wouldn't bother me to need to use my PAL for airsoft if that would help keep them from being banned. Thats all I'm trying to say about it, is if thats all it would take to keep them legal, sweet!
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Old September 17th, 2006, 14:03   #11
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PAL sounds good to me. If it's the only way, then let's show them we're responsible enough to go through that process.

We have nothing to lose; If they're hell-bent on banning airsoft, they'll ban it.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 14:10   #12
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That airsoft religion keeps looking better.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 14:33   #13
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The non-sequitir comments in this thread aside, I still haven't seen an answer to the question of what such an initiative is trying to accomplish.

Adreniline Junky had started this thread with the comment, "with all the proposed bans and rumored [sic] raids going around, it might be time to look at a new way to police our community, which would show the government [sic] that they don't need to ban the resale of our guns. and stop us from playing."

However, it still isn't clear to me how, even if we could implement an iron-clad age verification system using ASC or some other message forum as the means to do so in co-operation with the known retailers, how we would accomplish the goal of, "[showing] the goverment [sic] that they don't need to ban the resale of our guns. and stop us from playing."

We had found in the past that our online message forums capture only a very small portion of the airsoft community, and in cases where there has been misuse of airsoft in some way, it's almost never someone from our community. In fact, I can only recall one incident where that was the case.

Again, if people really want to help the situation, and I appreciate the sentiment that they do, I had provided my thoughts on doing so in another thread.

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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedirkin
Again, if people really want to help the situation, and I appreciate the sentiment that they do, I had provided my thoughts on doing so in another thread.
KD
Unfortunately that thread is now in the trash, but you did raise some good points. Something along the lines of what you were suggesting would be the better option IMO.

Canada and it's cities are often quick to ban things without thinking things through: martial arts supplies, mini crossbows, stun guns, carrying knives over a certain length, books, movies, and even certain breeds of dogs.

The airsoft community needs to plan a pre-emptive move, or they will be next. It's only a matter of time, and I think everyone knows it.
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Old September 17th, 2006, 15:24   #15
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Maybe what we could do, is to find member with legal experience, to create a proposal on how we could police ourselves, with a system kind of like a PAL like Dracheous suggested, but only that it applies to airsoft guns, not real guns. petition it to all members of the community. then bring it to the federal goverment. this would both show the goverment that we are a large group of mature members. and that, we are fully able to impliment a rule that will help to stop all the sales of guns to irrisponible people.
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