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Old July 19th, 2006, 16:10   #16
Brian McIlmoyle
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OK, then.

So.. the prevailing approach seems to be... I don't care about anyone else.. as long as I am happy

I don't get it... what is the problem with having a care for others?

When I schedule a game.. I do it weeks ahead.. and only on a weekend that no one else has scheduled, Why? so the players don't have to decide, so groups of friends won't be split as to which game to go to.

when I see game threads that say... "need more people!!! or we may have to cancel".. and I see 2 other events scheduled against it... After the first one.. all of them are hollering for more bodies.. it got me thinking...

hey why don't we just use the calendar.. and try to avoid this doubling up?

We have heard from some hosts.. and most don't seem interested in collaboration or co-operation, why I can't fathom... what about the players?

As a player.. what would you rather see?

3 games on one weekend all with ok attendance .. then 2 weekends with nothing.. or one event every weekend that is more likley to be well attended?

Most players only really go to one or two games a month.. very many much less.
If it is the one game you are going out to this month would you want to have to chose from 3 games on one weekend.. which has your friends all split some going to one some to the the other... or pick the one game that interests you and plan to go?

What do the players say?
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Old July 19th, 2006, 16:18   #17
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no reason to compete

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armyissue
I know where Brian is coming from. Its competition. Good for the buyer bad for the seller. Everyone in the food chain has a different place and point of veiw. :
True enough... but if there is no good reason to compete.. why do it? Other than for hubris sake.
as Atreyu says it is not like Hosts get paid... for the most part the only ones making money are the paintball places. And they don't give a crap about us.

If there was money to be made I understand competition.. but there is not.. so competition is self defeating.. is works against us not for us.

it is a simple thing... plan ahead, put your game in the calendar. and if there is one on the weekend you had planned.. choose a different date.

This way when your game comes up.. everyone who plays regular will be at your game, plus all the folks that only play at your games plus all the ones who only go to the field that you host at.

Every field would then have a big game every month rather than 2 small ones.
As most people only play once a month ... it will service the needs ofthe community to advantage.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 16:59   #18
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If you look at the events section Brian, you will see that there ARE events almost every weekend. I've only heard of a couple of events where the host has been forced to cancel due to lack of interest. This is about the PLAYERS and the availabilty of games for them to attend. personally, I prefer a choice of events to go to on a given weekend. And don't forget the silent masses of players who don't even bother posting before going to events. I now always add for 8-15 "show-up" players the day of. Now I know you provided an example of a problem you have, but I'm kinda curious as to what was the motive for your starting this thread in the first place...

This is not a regulated body, and the minute anyone tries to regulate it in such a way, you will find less hosts, and even less players at games.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 17:22   #19
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Plenty of reasons to compete...it's a BIG Provience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armyissue
I know where Brian is coming from. Its competition. Good for the buyer bad for the seller. Everyone in the food chain has a different place and point of veiw. :
True enough... but if there is no good reason to compete.. why do it? Other than for hubris sake.
as Atreyu says it is not like Hosts get paid... for the most part the only ones making money are the paintball places. And they don't give a crap about us.

This one I have to take issue, cause it disrespects and generalizes all the paintball fields.

FR has been extremely accomidating towards the Airsoft Community. Joe opened up use of his old property just to allow us more options in field variables, he allows us to play late, and to schedule other games around us. while he doesnt make the extra money off of us in paintballs and rentals, he knows that we're loyal to the fields we like and strives his best to provide us with Refs that stay out of our way and when we have the odd problem of a conflict with another group he actually deals with the problem instead of giving the prefrence to the Paintballers. We Airsofters bring him year round business and he does his best to make sure we're happy with him , his staff and his fields (3 of them now..one being indoor at which he has specifically said we can play on weekends unlike a certain PB indoor field in Toronto). I for one wish all the fields we play at were as accomidating.

As for what Army Issue said...Competition is good for the Buyers..that would be the Airsoft Players. And it makes the Sellers (and that would be the fields/hosts) work that much harder to give us the best product (and that would be games).

During Summer season there are games practically every weekend, sometimes both Saturday and Sunday. The more locations offering games the more the transportationally challenged are given options of where it is easiest to attend. Narrowing options isnt the answer. Though if you have a game conflict as I said earlier, you should contact the host that your conflicting with to see if there is a solution. They may have reasons that they are hosting that particular event that your not aware of. The hosts have to communicate these things if they feel such communication is required however they shouldnt be forced to do so.

I would love to hit Wasaga more often as it's a great field, but due to distance and time it's not as possible for me. But there should be no reason why people who are closer to Wasaga then Cambridge should be denied a game just cause I'm playing in cambridge. And one of these days I really want to play up at Wolfpack Primary cause it sounds like a great experience, again time and distance has a factor. The more options a player has...is a good thing.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 17:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armyissue
I know where Brian is coming from. Its competition. Good for the buyer bad for the seller. Everyone in the food chain has a different place and point of veiw. :
True enough... but if there is no good reason to compete.. why do it? Other than for hubris sake.
as Atreyu says it is not like Hosts get paid... for the most part the only ones making money are the paintball places. And they don't give a crap about us.

If there was money to be made I understand competition.. but there is not.. so competition is self defeating.. is works against us not for us.

it is a simple thing... plan ahead, put your game in the calendar. and if there is one on the weekend you had planned.. choose a different date.

This way when your game comes up.. everyone who plays regular will be at your game, plus all the folks that only play at your games plus all the ones who only go to the field that you host at.

Every field would then have a big game every month rather than 2 small ones.
As most people only play once a month ... it will service the needs ofthe community to advantage.
That's a good point, about not having good reason to compete, because the hosts aren't making money.....except for one. You are the owner of your field/CQB school/whatever you want to call it, so IMO, you are being biased against competition, because, although WE as players, benifit from compteition, YOU benifit from the lack thereof.


Most of the rest of what I wanted to add, has already been said above, so I won't repeat it.

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Old July 19th, 2006, 18:18   #21
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Don't start like that Torn, all the feild owners are looking to make a buck. Can't pick on Brian because he's the only one that aggressively persues AS business. Joe has been involved with the AS community for years and has a lot to do with the perpetuation of the sport.
How someone operates a feild and deals with the players is totally up to that person. Same with my shop if you don't like don't shop. But don't presume that you can tell me how to do it either. ( I still like to get the customers input though) :salute:
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Old July 19th, 2006, 20:30   #22
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Distance and time is the big factor for me... Though there is a paintball field that I now skip because it just doesn't do it for me.

Also I choose by who's hosting, if any of my friends are playing. I don't generally sign up for saturday games because I can't get that day off work...

hell i've seen 2 games going on at the same field multiple times (FR and wassaga)
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Old July 19th, 2006, 20:42   #23
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.[/QUOTE]

That's a good point, about not having good reason to compete, because the hosts aren't making money.....except for one. You are the owner of your field/CQB school/whatever you want to call it, so IMO, you are being biased against competition, because, although WE as players, benifit from compteition, YOU benifit from the lack thereof.


Most of the rest of what I wanted to add, has already been said above, so I won't repeat it.

Nic[/QUOTE]

I am not biased to competition.. I don't see the point of it.. when it would be better for the schedule to be planned a bit better, so that there are not multiple events in the same region at the same time. How is it good for the players to split and go to 3 different events with middling attendance.. when they could go to one with good attendance?
The way many of you speak.. you would think I am saying "don't play at anyone elses field but mine" I am not. I would make the same suggestion if I was not a Host\Venue owner.

Would it not be better for Atreyu's game to have 10 more players at it? Rather than having those players at some other game with 14 people at it?

Would it not be better for that game with 14 people at it to have 24 or 34 at it because they are not at Atreyu's game?

Would the Venue Owners not be happier with one game with 30 people every other weekend.. rather than games with 14 people at them?

This ain't rocket science.. its basic business.. and self evident to anyone who has taken more than 30 seconds to think about it. There are a finite number of consumers.. it just makes sense for the service providers to co-ordinate to maximize the number of consumers at each event. Everybody wins.

Venue owners. make more $ per event. Costs are fixed.. mostly, it costs the same to run an event with 14 as it does with 34. More $ per event.. makes them happier.. and gives the organizers more clout with the venue owners because you are bringing in the $.

Hosts feel more fulfilled because their events have good attendance.

Players have more fun because they have bigger turn outs.. and all their friends are at the same game.

Players play at more places.. meet new people.. the community becomes more intergrated.. and more powerful.

Can someone make a rational argument as to why this is a bad idea? Really?

As for making money... I don't personally make any money .. The expenses of operation far outstrip any income. My space downtown costs me $65 000.00 a year.. not including things like insurance... overall inclusive of all expenses the operations cost $70 000.00 a year Total revenue from all Airsoft activities since start up is somewhere around.. $6000.00 so as far a revenue goes in the whole operation .. it is a drop in the bucket.., Add to this that I have to put about another $5000 in shortly to make repairs and replace equipment... clearly I don't do it for money.. I do it because I enjoy it.. and I have the resources to provide services to others so they can enjoy it as well.

I simply cant figure out all this overt.. ( and clearly covert) hostility towards what I am trying to do..I am not trying to "take over" I am trying to facilitate success for everyone, venues, players, hosts alike.. Why does this threaten people?

Everywere I turn all I get is "you're just in this for the Money"

No I'm not... the paintball places... now they, are just in it for what they can make off of airsofters.. Regardless of how much they have "supported" airsoft.. They have done little to accomodate airsofters..

I on the other hand, asked what the community wanted.. and provided it to the best of my ability...And I will continue to do so..

What I would like to know is just what are the Issues here? why so much resistance to an Idea that anyone with an ounce of sense could see is a good one?
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Old July 19th, 2006, 20:59   #24
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I would personally like to thank Brian for the effort he has put in. I have attended my first game last Friday at TAC3, and from the way I see supplies dwindle (which he provides) as well as gear, I can pretty much confirm that this isn't exactly money boon. Being involved in the commercial building business, I can confirm that rent alone in Toronto would negate any revenue he pulls in from airsoft. I don't think that money is his motive here.

Truth is, having more players in a game is a definite plus for new players (at least for me). I'd much rather have a game with 20 people in a field which isn't my first choice, than have a game at my favourite field with only 10. The whole point here is not to try to segregate people here. I would love to play with people from other areas, even if I had to travel occasionally, as long as they meant larger games. The easiest way to do this is to plan schedules ahead of time, like Brian has done.

That's my 2 cents! (from a newbie point of view)
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Old July 19th, 2006, 22:39   #25
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Number of people at a game doesn't mean it will be a quality game. As long as you get enough players to have a good time that's all that matters.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 22:47   #26
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Agreed, but you definitely can't have a quality game with 4 people, or no people at all because it gets cancelled.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 23:23   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa
Number of people at a game doesn't mean it will be a quality game. As long as you get enough players to have a good time that's all that matters.
Ah the Senior Airsofter has spoken...

Lisa is quite right.
As an Experienced host Quality is not determined by numbers of player but the players themselves.

While conflicting schedules are unfortunate reality of summer season play, again if you have a big game your promoting then ask the other host. Simple solution, promotes co-operation and understanding, unlike what we're seeing develop here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiet
Agreed, but you definitely can't have a quality game with 4 people, or no people at all because it gets cancelled.
Now to the newest player commenting

While I know you are fresh to the sport and enjoyed TACC3 on your first outing. A 4 person game can be quite enjoyable, also a 10 person and 20 person game. It's all about the people your playing with.


Brian you attended my Stargate game. you had fun. did it matter that there was exactly a 23% flakage on attendance at the game to how much you enjoyed it?

It's who you play with that matters..now how many. Morbius who's been doing this for what? 9yrs + said pretty much that.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 23:28   #28
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You want high attendance, you need to build quality into your games. Plotlines are just a minor aspect of a game. Props (structures, fireworks, non-AEG weapons are your tangible aspects and are very important), themes/mood (WW2, Vietnam, Stargate) and players already interested/signedup (this suprisingly can be quite important to some) affects your turnout. Not saying that you havent already incorporated these but you may want to tweak some to create the perfect game where a lot of people would show up.

Also, the most memorable game I've been to had only a turnout of 18 or so but had many of the factors listed above (Meats Nam game, tied with BL2 nightgame)
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Old July 20th, 2006, 00:52   #29
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Still not Answering the point

I agree that numbers don't make the game... we have had excellent Ops at EOTEC with 10 people there..Some of the best nights at TTAC3 are with less than 10 people

Lets not cloud the issue.. This in NOT a my games are better than yours issue.

This is about working co-operatively as a community for the benefit of all.

this is not a big issue... All I am saying is Don't cut your mate's grass.

If you are a host .. and want to run a game .. fine do it.. just TRY no to schedule it against games that are already on the slate..

If you see that the game scheduled is a hardcore Milsim.. and what you have in mind is a highcap bb fest then maybe you don't need to worry.. different crowd.. less conflict.

I am NOT talking about regulating anything... I am not talking about sending in an application in triplicate for a certain date.. to the Airsoft game approval commission.

All I am saying is have a care for the other hosts out there and try not to cross schedule . Use the calendar.. and plan ahead and we all can reap the benefits.

OK... let me say this... I try not to step on anyone's toes .. If I see a game scheduled I won't schedule a game for the same weekend.. as a courtesy to my fellow game hosts... is it too much to ask for the same respect in return?
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Old July 20th, 2006, 01:00   #30
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So, what you're saying, is that you don't want anyone to book a game at Wasaga, or FlagRaiders, on the same day as you have a game at TACCT.

Which, after checking the games section, surprise surprise, is every week, every weekend day. (and, I'll be damned if a few of them weren't booked the week of, a few weeks after other games were booked on those days.

You can't have it both ways, Brian.
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