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Old July 18th, 2006, 21:41   #1
Brian McIlmoyle
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Schedule Conflicts, or cutting each others Grass

I was wondering if Hosts of games bother to look at the schedule before deciding to schedule a game?

Seems like there is a tendency to cross schedule games. Fact is there are only a limited number of active players in southern Ontario. If there are 3 sometimes 4 games scheduled all within an hour and a half drive of each other, are we not kinda shooting ourselves in the foot?

would it not be better to co-ordinate? and work a schedule so that there was a game every weekend somewhere but never , or infrequently more than one? This way attendance at all games would likely improve.

For example... I scheduled a game at EOTEC 5 weeks ago, for this Sunday.. for 3 weeks there was nothing schedueled against it. Now.. there are I think 3 other games schedued in southern Ontario and most of them have been calling for more players. some of them are skirting field minimums...
It is certain that some payers will jam out.. and be no shows .. some of the games may then fall under field minimums, risking cancellation or worse pissing off the field owner an jeopardizing the use of the field in the future.

Now I know that some players won't play at some fields .. or won't go to games hosted by certain people.. that is a whole other issue, and when dealing with humans unavoidable, but if you had the choice of one game on any given weekend and another game on another weekend then you could pick and choose which one to go to.. and those who are not particular could all go to the one game making for better attendance at all games.

In the end everyone benefits, the hosts get solid attendance,and don't have to scramble, nor do they have to "compete" with other hosts. The field owners get more revenue for each game assuring the future availibilty of venues. The players get larger games, and don't have to deal with the question of which game to go to.

There is one overriding stress for most Game hosts.. "am I going to get enough players out to make it worth the time and effort I put into this?
All it takes is a couple of poorly attended games to sour most on hosting.
When a Host sees 2-3 games scheduled for the same weekend.. it is a dissapointment because you know that your game is going to suffer a bit because of it. I don't think than any hosts go about willfully scheduling against other hosts, I do think that there is little thought put into scheduling, and this is what I suggest we improve.

I recommend that we improve the communication between hosts and use the Calendar included in this Site to schedule games within the same player base.
We should try to ensure that games get scheduled in each region each month but that games do not get scheduled in the same region on the same weekend. This way we can all reap the benefits of secure playing fields, large well attended games and happy and motivated hosts.

What say you hosts?
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Old July 19th, 2006, 00:30   #2
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I can see a few reasons for hosting multiple games - 1) some games like the flagswipe one on the 23rd, are intro games to field who haven't supported us before. This kind of thing can't really be forseen; 2) and some folks just like some fields more than others. While someone may want to play a milsim game at EOT, there are others who just want quick skirmshes, such as those played at FR.

My only complain is when someone posts a large event, weeks in advance, only to have another player host a similar game at a closer venue, a week or two before the larger pre-planned game.

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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:16   #3
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Well I can't speak as a host but as a player I would like to make it out to games to meet some new faces. But due to a stupid work schedual and the fact that some of the games over lap as much as they do while triing to organize rides and figure out who's going to what game, it can be real difficult. There are alot of people on this board in Ontario I haven't met and would love to meet on the field. it would be incredible if we could have a large game on a single field where every one got to meet and have fun. So far Quick pass has been the largest for me and the turn out was amazing. I think that would be cool in Ontario. People are going to host games that over lap but once in a while it would be nice to have everyone out to a single field and have an old fasion shoot out. then we can all join hands and sing coom by ah.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:16   #4
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I've never had a problem getting players. In fact, the numbers are increasing. Some, or should I say - most, fields are paintball venues we in fact "rent" the use of for the day. Thier largest source of revenue is from the paintballers purchasing paintballs. The entry fee's from airsofters is simply extra revenue.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:31   #5
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well I know this past weekend we shared a field with another game..but the one I hosted wasnt a public event and it was planned Weeks in advance.

Generally I avoid scheduling public games that coincide with others, and if I have one planned and another person posts a game that may cause a conflict that would actually concern me about attendance then I would contact them and see what we can do to resolve it together as hosts (attendance issues with DragonOps last year for example).

However this year now that Dragon Ops is no longer a consideration, my concerns about attendance is minimal and revolves around people flaking out on games at the last minute. as Atreyu said, by renting the land off established Paintball fields we have a lower risk factor and no minimums to meet, worse case is if we cant get a group of 15-20 players we just cancel the game.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:33   #6
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Brian, it's not a question of who or where, it comes down to preference. Players will come where they know of a proven host or venue to be to thier own personal liking. Perhaps it comes down to customer loyalty, or perhaps lack of choice. Either way, the players will go where they want no matter what is offered them.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 03:34   #7
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No one had anything posted for the 22nd for a little while, I went with the first game I saw. Not only that, but I've been sorta wanting for a while to see that old FlagRaiders field.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 09:49   #8
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Originally Posted by ATREYU
Brian, it's not a question of who or where, it comes down to preference. Players will come where they know of a proven host or venue to be to thier own personal liking. Perhaps it comes down to customer loyalty, or perhaps lack of choice. Either way, the players will go where they want no matter what is offered them.
well said.
in ottawa we dont have many players. maby 40 max. so we dont have enough to run to fields at the same time. Its a shame however, because there are games that I definatly DONT want to goto...not to mention, with only 1 field, its the same people all the time....same games all the time...same field fees...I mean really, how many time can you play a milsim downed pilot game befor you want some good old hicap allowed capture the flag.
Im not a fan of 2nd best...so if there is a shitty game at one field, and a better game at another field, or one field is simply more fun then the other, you can bet your ass im gonna spend my money where I think ill get the best return for it.

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Old July 19th, 2006, 11:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATREYU
Brian, it's not a question of who or where, it comes down to preference. Players will come where they know of a proven host or venue to be to thier own personal liking. Perhaps it comes down to customer loyalty, or perhaps lack of choice. Either way, the players will go where they want no matter what is offered them.
I think this is the best response to the question.

That being said, I'll add to this.

If I have a choice between WP Muskoka (my home field), Flagraiders, Wasaga and Eotech, Muskoka wins hands down. There's nothing anyone could offer me to deter me from a weekend at my home field, short of some insane container ship or verbotten CQB action somewhere.

It would have to be something REAL special to win my time from Muskoka.

If nothing's happening at Muskoka, I make my decision based on the following:

1) Where are my friends and teammates playing?
2) How comfortable am I with the venue?
3) How comfortable am I with the person hosting?
4) How much driving do I want to do this weekend?
5) Am I in the mood for a milsim game, an EVENT (entire weekend), or a day of skirmishing?

Now, I KNOW that WP will not host a major event if we know of a similar major event being planned at the same time. We try to post our games very clearly in advance; that being said, we also know that there is a given number of the community who will come to our games over most others simply because they prefer our location, company, and the kickass barbeques we throw after the game.

We ALSO know that there are plenty of people in the community who would rather take a day trip to Flagraiders then camp overnight at Muskoka, either because they don't have the time to commit to the full weekend, or the desire to attend such an event. As such, we don't generally balk at FR or Wasaga games that are hosted during one of our weekend events. To each their own, and the more choices the better.

Ultimately, it's up to the players. If I'm hosting a game at a new field, and I can't get numbers to attend, I would ask myself why, all things being equal, I'm not getting the numbers needed to run the games I wish to run. If a Flagraiders game easily draws away all my potential players, then there's evidently something wrong with MY game or venue, and/or something RIGHT or BETTER, more attractive, about the other.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 12:09   #10
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Thing is, these scheduling conflicts can stop new players from trying out a variety of fields. Not everyone has gotten themselves involved in the airsoft politics, and simply want to get out and play as much as possible, meet new people, and all that fun stuff. It's those new players that hurt the most from these scheduling conflicts. They're not the grisled grumps that won't go because so and so is there, and are willing to try new stuff. So unless you like having the same players at every game, then at least give this some thought. Planning the schedule, or at least discussing it, isn't such a bad idea, so long as it's done objectively and in a friendly manner.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 12:36   #11
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All good points, and valuable Insight, Thank you

I think that everyone has offered really helpful comments, and I appreciate it.

I think that much of player choice comes down to familiarity. People go to places that they have gone before, to where people that they know are going. This makes complete sense, it's human nature.

There have been according to my research a number of ventures to create "airsoft only" venues in southern central Ontario. Most have failed for one reason or another.. but underlying all the reasons is a failure of the player base at large to support them while they get going.

People choose to go to familiar places with familliar people to do familliar things... and the one thing that everyone says they want.. a place of their own where they can do what they want to without accomodating field owners, paintballers..whithers on the vine.

I am not talking about preference..some people will not go to certain fields, will not attend with certain people.. but really this is a minority. the majority of players will happily go wherever there is a game.And if theire is 3 games they will go where they think they will have the most fun.. which will be where they have had fun before.. where their friends are going... If there is only one event going... well the likelyhood is that they will go there.

All I am saying is why don't we make an effort for co-ordinate a schedule so that we can all help each other be succssful.

And successful is not about money.. it about offering vlaue to the attendees, a good experience, with challenging play in a environment that everyone enjoys.

It is easy to say, "Well I don't see any trouble... it does not seem to affect me" but it does.. If I host a game at EOTEC, and there are 2 other games going as well .. potential attendace is reduced at all three.. meaning that although you made your roster.. you could have had a larger attendance if the schedule had been co-ordinated.

All I am proposing is that we use the calendar on this site. post our games in there and have a care for other games scheduled so that we don't conflict too much.. can we see a downside to this? is there any way this could hurt anyone?
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Old July 19th, 2006, 13:32   #12
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Last while in ottawa we only ran 2 fields and we alternated every other weekend. So every week we could play at a different field. Each field got 2 games a month.


this year one field went private to its home team and only runs 1 public game per month and its players dont play at the other field. So public games for Ottawa get cut in half and the other fields player base runs around a dozen or less.
One team has tried to host more games by working out times to use a local paintball field, but still many players from one field wont go. Its a big division of players and degrades the local community.

Proper co-ordination between fields is a good idea. Ottawa's alternating schedual would have worked if it wasnt for player group comflicts.
 
Old July 19th, 2006, 13:34   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATREYU
Brian, it's not a question of who or where, it comes down to preference. Players will come where they know of a proven host or venue to be to thier own personal liking. Perhaps it comes down to customer loyalty, or perhaps lack of choice. Either way, the players will go where they want no matter what is offered them.
Atreyu's right...it comes down to preference at that given period of time.

Sure, sometimes you feel like milsim, or an indoor game, other times, you feel like going to FR and playing at an entirely different pace.

Sure it sucks that attendance may be a bit low sometimes if you host a game, but diversity of game types is one of the things that makes this sport great.

EDIT: Also, personal schedules may come into play as well. Some days, I loathe driving all the way to Cambridge for a game, especially with the gas prices the way they are lately, others, I might actually *be* in Cambridge already for the weekend visiting my gf's parents. There's many factors that go into what games people attend.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 14:55   #14
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I think that not scheduling big games concurently with other events could be avoided, but to take it to the other end of the spectrum and say that we shouldn't host anything the same day as anything/anyone else is a bit extreme. If we start restricting people's choices and say that "this is the only game this weekend, so you either come or don't play....", people will buck that. They will feel forced, and it eliminates options for those who are transportationally handicapped, have dislikes to a particular host/site, or don't want to drive far out of thier way. I don't know about the rest, but I'll continue to host games so long as people are willing to come out, regardless of what anyone says. Keep in mind that a host doesn't make any profit off hosting, and most times doesn't even get to play himself. Once I get my field up, I'll be having games every other weekend.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 15:55   #15
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I know where Brian is coming from. Its competition. Good for the buyer bad for the seller. Everyone in the food chain has a different place and point of veiw. It all depends on where you are in the chain. If I was the only place you could come to buy toys I'd be happy. But, I'm not so I have to work and spend a lot more time than I'd like to working in the business :hammer: and still after doing so much an un for seen variable swings in and upsets your efforts. :banghead: Its disheartening. But hey at least I enjoy most of what I do. :mrgreen:
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