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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:02   #121
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adam is gay!!!!!
and to reiterate what i just said u guys suk balls
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:03   #122
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:03   #123
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:03   #124
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the hell outta you dumb fuckers
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:13   #125
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You will all have to forgive those last few I have a feeling it was the work of my room mate
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 06:26   #126
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Wow this thread is still going.

Fluffy, you do have some point to what to say, but some of what you say doesn't make sense. Yes, kids will get the hands on airsoft one way or another, but we shouldn't ENCOURAGE them to do so even more, hence the reason why retailers shouldn't sell to minors. (As for clubs/fields, they are welcomed to invite minors, but at the end of the day, it's still their choice)

Yes, like alcohol, cigarettes, and gambling, society does not want minors to have any part of it, do you consider that prejudice? And if you think about it carefully, these are the same reasons why airsoft take on a similar approach. There will be kids who drink, smoke and gamble out of their mind, but as long as MAJORITY doesn't, that's what laws/regulations are trying to achieve.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 10:43   #127
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Fluffy...

Private fields are like your private home. You DO have the right to refuse anyone's attendance. It's your Legal Right.
Fair? It has nothing to do with fairness or discrimination. It's YOUR land. Now if you want your rights to be put aside, so be it.

I dont understand what you find so hard to get in all this.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 11:59   #128
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Believe it or not, this site is not the end all be all of Airsoft. I'd say 40% of actual PLAYERS, thats not to say chairsofters, don't even bother with this site due to its frequent issues of petty politics.
Fun fact! 80% of all statistics are made up.
i want to see your sources!!! :grin:
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 12:04   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestJohn
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Believe it or not, this site is not the end all be all of Airsoft. I'd say 40% of actual PLAYERS, thats not to say chairsofters, don't even bother with this site due to its frequent issues of petty politics.
Fun fact! 80% of all statistics are made up.
i want to see your sources!!! :grin:
I saw it on teh intarweb so it must be true!!!
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 12:36   #130
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Droc, please don't get me wrong. I can understand why you would. I will not break the rules. I'm just saying why I think some might/do. I think most of the rules in airsoft are very reasonable. I understand the liability issue. If I can't play at LZ well then too bad, I'll wait. I can play at foxden though and I don't plan on messing that up by doing something dumb, why would I. The whole tactical part of airsoft is what fascinates me. I don't want to be stuck with no place to play.

As for coming back here and asking about which gun to buy and upgrades. I've got it covered... I've used the search function extensively and have found every bit of info I need on the p90, its upgrades, issues, fixes etc.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 12:54   #131
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Clubs can turn away whoever they want.
Fair enough, but last time I checked wasn't this called prejudice? And please don't argue that the law says it's diferent because 50-100 years ago there were many laws that excluded women and many ethnic groups. It's still prejudiced!
As Greylocks pointed out, most of this stuff is on private property, and they can turn away whoever they want. Even fields that double as airsoft fields, since they are primarly lazer/paint, airsoft is extra and un-official, and can turn down whoever they want. And realistically, the community rules dont want minors, and can turn them away for just that reason.
You cant pull your descrimination card anymore then a 6 year old can when he wants to get a real rifle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droc
Obiously, you havent been to many games yet. There is no guy behind the desk of the venue. Airsoft clubs are for the most part, played on private property. Most well-established fields are on someones back property. Most owners play. Its their land, plain and simple. They do care. And if you have a well-established players group who doesnt want minors, then typically its in the owners best intrest to keep his regulars happy.
And I'm really trying not to, but I can't help but take at least some offense to this. The place where we play here (for indoor) doubles as a lasertag place before 6:00pm so yes there is a "guy behind the desk". And for outdoor it's usually paintball places so once again there is a "guy behind the desk"
again, since those places are lazer/paint places, they run airsoft in after-hours when it would normally be closed. Its those places that should be MOST concerned with the age limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Droc
We do everything we can to encourage proper behaviour. The rules are here. But if a minor doesnt like the rules and side-steps them, thats their fault. We didnt encouage that.

example:
If I tell nizfiz here not to play airsoft untill hes of-age, im not encouraging him "do it anyways" if he doesnt want to do what we recommend, and decides to go out and do it anyways, then thats his fault, not mine. Im not forcing him to act stupidly. saying its ok to act stupidly simple because he cant play at our field is retarded.
It's never ok to do stupid things and I know that no one here would ever want that, including myself. you are however forcing him into a choice! One that most kids will choose the option we don't want them to.

I want to get across here I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about letting kids play. Just please think about what effect that may have on whether or not a kid will find his own way of using his gun. A lot of us tend to turn a blind eye towards a kid after we tell him he can't play, or can't buy a gun. Yet we're the first to be up in arms when one of us reads an article about the police catching some kids playing in a park or something like that.

Even if we aren't part of the problem, so far we aren't part of the solution either.

Our rules and attitudes are here to make people be responsible. We are not forcing anyone to act stupidly.
What it seems like you keep saying is that if we dont let minors play, they will be stupid so we should change the rules to accomidate for their idiocy.
No dude, no way
We are not going to change the rules because they "will do it anyways"
This whole process weeds out the morons.
If a minor side-steps our rules, fine, not our problem. It just garentees that they will miss out on the best thing about airsoft. Guns are nice, but the games are what makes this thing the best. Look at the videos from any of our major operations. you cant compare it to anything you'll do in your backyard. you mess with the rules, you wont be a part in these things.

And about the offence, it doesnt matter. This is the ways things are. I was a huge advocate for minors in the past, greylocks and I would fight to the death over minors, but really, the rules are the rules. It took years to come up with them and they are in the best intrests of airsoft. We dont care about hurt feeling or stupid minors, this is all about what is bets for airsoft in Canada.
 
Old April 2nd, 2006, 12:59   #132
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Quote:
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Droc, please don't get me wrong. I can understand why you would. I will not break the rules. I'm just saying why I think some might/do. I think most of the rules in airsoft are very reasonable. I understand the liability issue. If I can't play at LZ well then too bad, I'll wait. I can play at foxden though and I don't plan on messing that up by doing something dumb, why would I. The whole tactical part of airsoft is what fascinates me. I don't want to be stuck with no place to play.

As for coming back here and asking about which gun to buy and upgrades. I've got it covered... I've used the search function extensively and have found every bit of info I need on the p90, its upgrades, issues, fixes etc.
No, I understand. Its a harsh reality. If I was a minor, Id sure as hell want to play airsoft too. Its frustrating when we have to replay this thread every week or so.

BTW, P90, not a great field gun for ottawa. Great for CQB, but the weird mag makes gear hard to find, the lack of a good hicap makes foxden game difficult, and being short, isnt all that great for open fields like the LZ.
 
Old April 2nd, 2006, 13:03   #133
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Maybe it should be stickied to show everyone who is interested. Also, if you want to hear the same story over and over again you can just go to this thread. If not, just ignore it.

Thx for the suggestion. I know its weaknesses, but I think moded to 400fps and with an m4a1 tight bore through the silencer I could get some decent range. The ammo is an issue but if I really can't deal with it, I'll just buy that box mag which take 1600 or something plus an m16 high cap with 300-500.
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 14:22   #134
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Hey Droc, I got a question for you, because I know Fluffy and nizfiz won't get it.

Are these paintball fields and indoor lazer tag arena's private property with a comercial license? I mean, if you owned a jean store, wouldn't you have the right to turn away customers? Not that it'd be great for business, but as a free Canadian citizen you have the right to not do business with someone if you don't want too right? So why the hell would it make a difference if it was a paintball field or someones back yard like the Foxden or the LZ?

Of course I agree 100% here with Droc. There is a problem with minors owning these guns, a big one. And for another fun fact, anyone under 18 is not permitted to own a REAL fire arm. For you to use one going huntin' with gramps or your dad you gotta go through a bunch of hoolla hoops and training courses just to get a peice of paper that says your "mature" or "stable" enough to be trusted to "share" a rifle/shotgun with someone on a hunt.


And Fluffy, if you REALLY want to call prejudice here on saying we don't accept minors. And that its against the law in Canada to do that? Well then go look at ANY government applied law, because according to you there is alot of prejudice there just in age. Like, can't vote till 18, can't go for your drivers license till 16, can't buy smokes till 18, can't drink till 19 in some provinces 18 in the rest. Seriously, take a look around you. There are laws in place for, and read carefully, SAFETY! We can't let any 12 year old get a drivers license because he/she's grew up on a farm and knows more about driving than some racecar dricers. Nor can we start letting every 15-16 year old start voting because if you go look at some of these protesters down on parliment hill, like here's my favorite, "FREE TIBET" I've seen so many of those damn protests, but you know what really gets me? Some of em are wearing clothes that have "MADE IN CHINA" or listening to CD players and other stuff that says "MADE IN CHINA." And then a week later you see them protesting "Stop the wars." Well, you can't free Tibet with out going in and taking Tibet from China, OR you could boycott their trade till they agree to free them, but those protesters are already not doing that so. Yeah, we gotta have a set "Maturity" and "Stable" standard before we start letting people vote. And drinking, I know there is tonnes of underage drinking, my grandfather owned a bar, I drank underage. I was only allowed to drink so much and not allowed to drink behind my parents back. As long as they knew where I was and they were in control of it they were fine. Its still illegal I know, but I'm not a drunk, and I don't like very many alcohols. But let's take away that 18 and 19 age limit and let 12 year olds into it! While were at it, lets legalise marijuanna, and crack cocaine.

Fluffy, the point to the rant here is simple. It is NOT prejudice to set limits and guidlines. Because right now the issue is safety. Beleive it or not but most 12 year olds are not physically build or matured ((physically)) to run around in commando gear. Loose equipment can cause you to trip and fall. This can cause many injuries and I really don't want to see ambulances pulling up where there are huge stashes of guns and bb ammo. The media would blow a big fat load all over that!


Nizfiz, if you're going for range and accuracy of an M4A1, go with an M4A1!! You can get all the accessories you want and you're not monkeying around jury-rigging stuff that breaks mid-game. The P90 is a great QCB gun as Droc said, because that's exactly what it was designed for. This is an SMG its not a rifle, and its not a Large Maching Gun, its a small one designed for clearing rooms, not feilds. The only benifit you'd find for infeild action with real steal versus an M4 and a P90, is that the P90 would be lighter overall, because of its small ammo. But the M4 would stack up quick against it in range and stopping power. So decide what and where you want to use your gun, so that you can play with it stock until you can decide if the gun is comfortable to you before you stick $500+ of upgrades into it only to have it on the "Forsale" section of the forums because you found that its not the most comfortable gun. Like I love the look of the G36, but just holding one the other day I could see quickly that I'd not be comfortable with one for long periods of play, just wasn't user friendly to me. ((Not to say the G36 is a bad gun here, just an example of get a feel for the gun you want)).
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Old April 2nd, 2006, 14:33   #135
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thanks for the tip, I'm not buying anything until I get out to a game though and see the guns. I'm a sucker for the p90's looks that's the problem. Technically I can't buy a gun but it'll be my parents' gun and they'll trust me.
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