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Old March 26th, 2006, 08:43   #1
pizzainthemorning
 
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Japanese vs. Canadian Airsoft

Just a little rant and opinion nothing that important, so if you want, read on.

So I've been here in Japan for about 3 months now, been out to a few games, and have been thinking a lot about this weird airsoft-culture-shock.

Obviously everything is more plentiful and cheaper, but I'm talking more about the actual gaming. Before I really get started, let me say that I'm having a great time playing airsoft (fly half way around the world and shoot people right?) in Japan. A lot of fun, cool, nice people. Good times. That being said, lets go.

To start, my two cents may not be 100% informed, and probably biased. When I say "Canadian Airsoft" I speak mainly about myself and the people I play with, which is a small group mostly isolated from the greater community. However, just reading things in the forums I think the view is more or less the same. When I say "Japanese Airsoft" again, referring to the games I've been to here, and can only assume that most games are played in a similar fashion.

I play airsoft for two reasons:
1. It's fun.
2. Realistic simulation/training.

When we go out in Canada, it's a huge plot of bush and trails, a few people, and a big long creep through those woods. We shoot only at what we can hit, and try to make it as real as possible, even adding in things like wounding to our games.

However, when I look at Japanese airsoft, like a lot of things Japanese.... it's strange. I'd say the average regular airsofter has about $6-700 in gear (some much, much more). That's just gear. Ok, that's cool, taking it very seriously, making it more real and authentic maybe, but then this is where it gets weird. I don't see one normal stock gun. Everything is customized or upgraded in some way or another. Guns so crazy, that they are more or less unrealistic. Customized special motors and high speed gears pumping out thousands of rounds from an automically fed 2000 round box mag such that the sound is no longer a series of rapid individual shots but a constant high pitched whining hum. Today I saw a spring shotgun with a silencer on it (sorry for the language, but really, I mean, what the fuck). P90's that have special extensions so they can take M16 mags (maybe those really exist, but I don't know, it looked weird). Nobody uses lo-caps, where in Canada we go to the trouble of organizing group orders to cut down the cost just to get those precious, realistic locaps.

Now, this makes sense in the fact that guns and accessories are cheap so this can be afforded, but again, I have to relate back to the actual gaming. Like I said, the games are fun, but the game is no longer stealth, no longer reflexes, no longer endurance, no longer cunning, no longer any of those things that I would imagine make a good soldier, the game is "whoever can shoot the most rounds the longest wins". The field we play at is roughly about 100 m x 100 m, and, the average game yields a turnout of about 80 people. Small space, tons of people, and a zillion bb's.

Anyone on this board who's been to Japan and played a bit of airsoft there, I'm anxious to hear your thoughts to see if they're remotely similar to mine. Like I said, this isn't an "attack" on Japan, and I also realize that in Canada sure, sometimes we're not all about the realism, but in general.

Now of course there are arguments against this (there's not a lot of space in Japan, what do you expect? It's cheaper, why not upgrade?), all I'm saying is that in general, I think that "Canadian Airsoft" is in truth more realistic, and in the end, yields better soldiers. Canadians, I salute you.

Alex
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Old March 26th, 2006, 10:07   #2
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It's a matter of culture and perspective.
Over here, even if it's rare, many of us can find a place to shoot real guns or try shooting something we've only read about.
We can experience guns in ways that are impossible in Japan.

This means that most of their experience with guns is based on reading, or movies, instead of facts. It then follows that they will be more influenced by those books and movies and go for 'trends' instead of reality-based things.

I've seen it happen often enough at a real range (new folks who read a lot and know nothing, but think they do) to imagine it's pretty much what goes on.

You cant base a game on reality if you have no real idea what that reality is, or a way to find out.
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Old March 26th, 2006, 10:25   #3
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You also have to figure that since the stuff is so much cheaper, and the sport is more exposed over there, they have a wider variety of people who play. If you don't have a ton of space and you do have a ton of people things are more likely to go the way of paintball (run and gun).

Here you have to be a bit crazy to spend the few grand you'll need to do it right. The people who aren't serious will go for the Canadian Tire springers or pellet guns. The ones who are serious are more likley to be into milsim.
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Old March 26th, 2006, 13:06   #4
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Airsoft isnt very realistic in terms of accurately representing combat.
I play it because it is fun. I think other people have different ideas about fun, so I leave them to decide, even though I would never use something like a C-mag.

And in Japan, people do more than just go to "survival games"
They do quite a bit of indoor shooting competitions, which I havent seen in Canada.

http://gungineer.cande.biz/
And I can say that they are definitely better in gunsmithing than us Canadians.
Some of the custom airsoft and even gun tuning on that site are pretty crazy.

But then again, this is all from talking to people and from reading; I havent actually experienced airsoft in Japan yet...

oh, and since you are in Osaka
check out
http://vietviet.nomaki.jp/
Its next month so you can still make it!
They've got rules on BDU, weapon loadout, ammo, etc
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Old March 26th, 2006, 13:22   #5
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From the sounds of it airsot over there seems more paintball diluted than over here. I could just see people running around shooting fast, far, and high in numbers and I can't say that sounds better than what we have here.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 01:45   #6
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I think "Japanese airsoft" are much more realistic, as they play way more milslim then we do. Plus I know (not personally, but i know of) a lot people in Japan and Hong Kong, who will spend thousands of dollars to aquire the real (not replica) tactical gears (everything from, shoes, belts, body armor, plate carriers....etc) and real gun accsseroires in order to match 100% the military units that they are trying to replicate. For those reasons, I think you would feel more realistic at those games.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 02:25   #7
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Milsim to me doesnt mean 'how real your gun is'. in all honesty, my opinion, how real your gun is, determined by if your parts are replica is a stupid way to think of the definition of milsim. to me, milsim is the style of the game, the attitude of the people. do you see guys in iraq holding theyr gun like the M29 in ghost recon 2 popping it out around corners and just holding the trigger? no because THATS unrealistic. maybe when we discover some type of ammunition that never runs out and never has to be reloaded, we can just pop our weapon out, hold the trigger and hope to hit something. but your gear and gun have nothing to do with milsim. look at wars in africa... guys run around with ripped up jeans, a shirt, and a rag on theyr head, the gun, typical Andrew Kalishnakov 47, thats probably been dropped about 40 times. lol like i said its a style of play, not the style you wear/carry.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 02:25   #8
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Let's keep in mind here that space in Japan -IS- limited as are the locations where the playing is available. When we played, it was in an actual city park along Futako Tamakawa (Futako River). Our playing 'field' was about 200 meters long by about 100 meters wide.

Yes, the guns there are VERY customized, and yes the games are alot like speedball. I must go against what AndrewL has said as I had seen INCREDIBLY little mil-sim in Japan. That's not saying China doesn't have any but there was virtually none occuring in the time I lived in Japan. There was one BIG game at the SDF base at the bottom of Mt. Fuji, but it was hardly mil-sim... imagine a 'big paintball game' complete with people dressed up as cartoon characters... yea, now you get the picture.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 02:32   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykill666
look at wars in africa... guys run around with ripped up jeans, a shirt, and a rag on theyr head, the gun, typical Andrew Kalishnakov 47, thats probably been dropped about 40 times.
AK-47 stands for Avtomat Kalashnikova - 47, which means "Kalashnikov automatic rifle, model of 1947", and was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov. Where did you get "Andrew" From?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewL
I think "Japanese airsoft" are much more realistic, as they play way more milslim then we do. Plus I know (not personally, but i know of) a lot people in Japan and Hong Kong, who will spend thousands of dollars to aquire the real (not replica) tactical gears (everything from, shoes, belts, body armor, plate carriers....etc) and real gun accsseroires in order to match 100% the military units that they are trying to replicate. For those reasons, I think you would feel more realistic at those games.
Many of us do spend thousands of dollars on purchasing realistic gear. Just look at teams like STAT, In Country or Contras and you'll see how much money we've all poured into our kit.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 02:52   #10
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mykill666 wrote:
Quote:
Milsim to me doesnt mean 'how real your gun is'. in all honesty, my opinion, how real your gun is, determined by if your parts are replica is a stupid way to think of the definition of milsim
All I said was they play more milsim than we do :-D . I never said "how real your gun is" is how to define milsim.
Then I said they look way more realistic than we do, becuase they have the real stuff... and looking the part does help make the game more realistic.
When they do play as terrorists, they do play in jeans and T-shirt.. to look the part.

I guess I was looking at Hong Kong airsoft more than Japanese airsoft when I said they play more milsim... my bad. :smack:

I agree many players here buy real stuff too (and looks very good btw)... But in comparison, more precentage of players do that over there than here, that's all.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:02   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinjin_MC
http://gungineer.cande.biz/
And I can say that they are definitely better in gunsmithing than us Canadians.
Some of the custom airsoft and even gun tuning on that site are pretty crazy.
Google translation link here: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...eer.cande.biz/
The links to the actual modifications are at the very bottom left. There's some insane stuff on there... ball bearing tappet plates and crazy shit.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 06:15   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinjin_MC
http://gungineer.cande.biz/
And I can say that they are definitely better in gunsmithing than us Canadians.
Some of the custom airsoft and even gun tuning on that site are pretty crazy.
Google translation link here: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...eer.cande.biz/
The links to the actual modifications are at the very bottom left. There's some insane stuff on there... ball bearing tappet plates and crazy shit.
Using google translator, I wonder why they translate gun into cancer/gun. :???:

After looking at the Gun Smith Gallery, I think I feel for the original poster's shock when he saw the shotgun with the silencer as I saw this M16 PISTOL. :x:


Though most of the guns look fairly normal, but if you go through the gallery, you'll CERTAINLY find a few shocker in there.

After browsing through most of the site, they seem to be REALLY hardcore into it by the look of some of the mods and upgrades. They also have some interesting indoor shooting competition; sniper rifle challenge as well as pistol challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzainthemorning
I think that "Canadian Airsoft" is in truth more realistic, and in the end, yields better soldiers.
I do see your point but however, I would imagine in a real war, the side with more bullets will often dominate the other side. I mean what can you really do when your whole squad is pinned down by a few machine gunners except calling for help from another squad, requesting artillery, armour vechicle, or a fly-by. When you speak about stealth, reflexes, endurance and cunning, it reminds me more of special ops on a recon mission than a full out battle in a field.

But see "Japanese Airsoft" from this point of view, it's generally agreed that places like Japan has more of a face-pace culture. If I was there working 5 maybe 5.5 days (Work every other saturday) a week, and over 40 hrs per, I would be pretty tired/stressed out by the time the weekend come. What else would be better to do than spending the weekend at an airsoft field, letting your finger loose, doing a lil tragger happy action and go crazy for a little while.

As psychotic as it sounds, I do feel more calm/happy after unloading a clip with my glock in my basement range after a long stressful day of work. :shock:
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Old March 27th, 2006, 10:34   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pizzainthemorning
.......pumping out thousands of rounds from an automically fed 2000 round box mag such that the sound is no longer a series of rapid individual shots but a constant high pitched whining hum.
Sounds like the second coming of the Apocolypse. Lol
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Old March 27th, 2006, 10:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro
Many of us do spend thousands of dollars on purchasing realistic gear. Just look at teams like STAT, In Country or Contras and you'll see how much money we've all poured into our kit.

*ahem*
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what if it model after his?
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Old March 27th, 2006, 12:31   #15
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check out some of the scratch-built custom stuff here
http://gungineer.cande.biz/gunsmith_index.htm
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