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TRADE ISSUE - BCAC J-AIR

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Old January 30th, 2006, 20:56   #1
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TRADE ISSUE - BCAC J-AIR

I will post this soon on the BCAC boards for reference, but it is likely all my replies will be limited to ASC.

As well as leaving negative feedback for J-Air of BCAC(Pvt.Joker on ASC). I want to bring this to the public's attention, as I'm seeking help in the form of an intermediary to solve this problem.

Earlier in the month, J-AIR and myself worked out a trade deal in regards to my OD TM14, and his CA/TM M4RIS with M203. Those curious about the specifics of his M4 that won't be sighted in this post, may find the for sale thread here:http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=19003. We agreed to trade my TM M14, which was in near mint condition, plus 6 additional TM M14 mags (lo-caps_ for what is listed in the above linked ad.

Once we started to work out the specifics of the deal, other issues became apparent. I was told that the seller has disabled Semi-Auto which I'm fine with, but this set off some warning bells, that i should have listend to, about the rest of the gun. I was told the G&P PEQ that is pictured in the ad was in fact broken, and he had an ICS Peq unit in near perfect condition, I elected to take the non-broken ICS one. I was also told that the internals, and AEG were in excellent condition, other than a few dings and scratches.

Upon arrival of the M4 ( which was stuffed in a box too small for it.) I found a few very disheartening things:

- The clamp on the PEQ was cracked down the middle, likely from overtightening on the rail. As such its not possible to attach it to the RIS (when i tried to screw it on, the bottom of the clamp actually fell off). Making it not-possible to use the AEG, since its an external battery.

- the RIS and M203 were not properly mounted to the AEG. at the time, a silver washer was wedged between the body and the RIS holding it in place loosely, and the RIS unit, as well as the M203 is able to rotate around the outer barrel making it unsafe for use (if i took a fall with this thing, i see myself seriously fucking the front M203 mount, and or destroying anything on the RIS

The RIS also will come off if you pull with any real force.

- After initially receiving this and talking to J-air, he agreed to send his other "broken" PEQ that was initially pictured to see if i could jury-rig a solution. I then returned to my apartment in scarborough (it should be noted that all my gear resides at my parents house, since i cannot have them here at my apartment.) I assumed that he would come foreword with any other problems, I was wrong.

- Last weekend I returned home and cracked open the body ,only to find the AEG lacks a nozzle. It is very clear that the brass tube from the cylinder head was protruding from the mechbox ,without the black plastic nozzle that should be there allowing to fire. I have not yet been able to drop the M4 off with a gun-tech to get a more detailed report, but I fear further problems within the AEG itself.

Once I confronted J-Air with this, he began to use profane words and refused any compensation. He then stated that the M14 arrived in FUBARED condition, yet he didn't provide pictures, nor contact me when the M14 arrived nor did he request I begin the process to make an insurance claim on the parcel through CP.

Needless to say I'm VERY disappointed in this transaction, and this will likely end any dealings I may have with the membership of BCAC. I would appreciate any assistance in getting J-Air to step foreword and do the right thing, help get this M4 running in the condition that it was stated to be in, and to not stick with his concluding PM line:

"If you think I am going to compensate you in any way-give you're head a shake"

Thanks,

Mike
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Old January 30th, 2006, 21:29   #2
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I Think that this IS TOTALY unacceptable. Please provide his house address. If he won't agree you can go pry your M14 out of his little hands and keep the 2 M4s or beat him with them untilll he is knocked out and THEN give back one.

Seriously I am going to make a master list of ALL bad transactions and post them in like reviews.

Give me some time though, studying exams.

SUE THE BITCH.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 21:51   #3
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Originally Posted by LucidFox
I Think that this IS TOTALY unacceptable. Please provide his house address. If he won't agree you can go pry your M14 out of his little hands and keep the 2 M4s or beat him with them untilll he is knocked out and THEN give back one.

Seriously I am going to make a master list of ALL bad transactions and post them in like reviews.

Give me some time though, studying exams.

SUE THE BITCH.
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Goldman, you've already posted this in the BCAC forum, if you're looking for an intermediary to resolve the situation, then what good will posting on ASC do? At least wait for the BCAC admins to resolve this rather than air all the dirty laundry before the dispute has been resolved.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 21:58   #4
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LOL It took me forever to get that STFU...LOL
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Old January 30th, 2006, 21:58   #5
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Goldman, you've already posted in the BCAC forums and I'm sure the admins will work with you to resolve this dispute. There's no point in airing the dirty laundry on ASC because nobody else here can help and the dispute has not yet been sorted out.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:08   #6
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I posted it here, becuase previous posts i'd made on BCAC had been locked, or trashed, i'm holding a public record of this until it has been resolved.

I'll also note, nothing happend about this until it was also posted on ASC. my precvious posts were lcoked or trashed, as I already stated.

I want EVERYONE to be aware of this deal as I have absolutely nothing to hide or for that much, use my position at another board to hide behind.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugs144
Goldman, you've already posted in the BCAC forums and I'm sure the admins will work with you to resolve this dispute. There's no point in airing the dirty laundry on ASC because nobody else here can help and the dispute has not yet been sorted out.
Goldman posted here because there has been no response from the BC area and he feels the last reply indicates that the other party is not particularly willing to discuss the matter or resolve it. As such he has posted it here for the public interest as many of us are quietly watching how this pans out. I find it interesting that the post has been removed from the BCAC website, preventing any local area response to it. I wouldn't say that the aforsaid reply or the actions on the BCAC website are a step in the right direction.

You're correct, the dispute has not been sorted out yet and many of us here look forward to seeing the dispute resolved between the two parties.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:15   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldman
Needless to say I'm VERY disappointed in this transaction, and this will likely end any dealings I may have with the membership of BCAC.
I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater yet. I am sure there are individuals out there who may yet step forward to lend a hand. I don't believe in painting an entire community with the same brush as might be deserved for the actions of one individual.

If someone out in BCAC is willing to step forward and help mediate the situation, I would be quite willing to do so from this end.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:21   #9
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I can understand posting here for the public interest but this is still an ongoing dispute and I don't think it's in the public interest to air this drama as it plays out. This is the reason the posts on BCAC have been moved to the admin section where it can be hashed out.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:27   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugs144
I can understand posting here for the public interest but this is still an ongoing dispute and I don't think it's in the public interest to air this drama as it plays out. This is the reason the posts on BCAC have been moved to the admin section where it can be hashed out.
Its good to know it is being discussed in the admin section, which is more than we knew than when when this thread started. Are you an admin at BCAC or are you affiliated with one? What is the source of your information in this regard.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:34   #11
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The last thing I saw was one of the admins stating he was moving the thread to the admin section. I am not an admin so I can't give you any further info.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:43   #12
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I will see whats going on the BC end..to a point, I am not going to mediate anything as I have no time to do it. I will say this though. that gun never had any problems when I was shot by it....and Jair is a competent gunsmith, I cannot see him trying to fuck you over.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:48   #13
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As with anything, there are two sides to every story -and the side I heard paints things in a very different light. I see you fail to mention any wrongdoing by yourself...

For one thing, you two agreed to a trade and to ship simultaneously, but when you received the m4 a week later, you hadn't even shipped the m14 yet (or, what was it, got your parents to ship it for you?), and after holding onto it for a while longer you in fact you had lied about shipping it before you actually shipped it. Apparently the peq issue you were well aware of, so you shouldn't be acting like it's some big surprise. Again, apparently the same thing with the 203. This is why he was trading a thousand dollar gun for a used m14. Still, you started complaining to him about it, while still not shipping your gun to complete the trade, de facto holding it hostage. When I spoke to him he still hadn't received your m14, so I guess you finally shipped it at some point (and what, you shipped a broken gun?).
If you are trading a gun and both of you are shipping on the same day, you make sure that you do. Don't blame your parents.

What 'local response' do you want?
Both of you are saying the other one fucked them over. One person I know, and has served the gvrd for years and sold to everybody, even being a retailer for a while. He says *you* fucked *him* over.
As far as stepping forward to do the right thing, it sounds like you may have a little stepping forward to do yourself.

Perhaps if you own up to the part you played he might be more receptive.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmatty
I will see whats going on the BC end..to a point, I am not going to mediate anything as I have no time to do it. I will say this though. that gun never had any problems when I was shot by it....and Jair is a competent gunsmith, I cannot see him trying to fuck you over.
Bigmatty, is this your personal position, or does it represent the opinion of the admin staff which moved the post. Is there someone at that end willing to mediate this? Ie: inspect the gun and listen to the party impartially?

The condition that the M4 arrived in is not consistent with that of a competent gunsmith, so there is a discrepency with the item at this end that the seller/trader should address. Similarly if Jair has issues with the condition of the M14, it should be addressed by Goldman. If they can't come to an arrangement, both parties should return each other's property.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 22:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunny
As with anything, there are two sides to every story -and the side I heard paints things in a very different light. I see you fail to mention any wrongdoing by yourself...

For one thing, you two agreed to a trade and to ship simultaneously, but when you received the m4 a week later, you hadn't even shipped the m14 yet (or, what was it, got your parents to ship it for you?), and after holding onto it for a while longer you in fact you had lied about shipping it before you actually shipped it. Apparently the PEQ issue you were well aware of, so you shouldn't be acting like it's some big surprise. Again, apparently the same thing with the 203. This is why he was trading a thousand dollar gun for a used m14. Still, you started complaining to him about it, while still not shipping your gun to complete the trade, de facto holding it hostage. When I spoke to him he still hadn't received your m14, so I guess you finally shipped it at some point (and what, you shipped a broken gun?).
If you are trading a gun and both of you are shipping on the same day, you make sure that you do. Don't blame your parents.

What 'local response' do you want?
Both of you are saying the other one fucked them over. One person I know, and has served the gvrd for years and sold to everybody, even being a retailer for a while. He says *you* fucked *him* over.
As far as stepping forward to do the right thing, it sounds like you may have a little stepping forward to do yourself.

Perhaps if you own up to the part you played he might have be more receptive.
1 - Shipping. Yes as stated I am not able to keep my gear at my home in scarborough, it has to be kept at my parents home in Toronto. I asked them to ship the M14 out, and they did not, they forgot. Things like this happen. If I wanted to keep the M14 until the M4 arrived, I would have told J-Air that I was doing that. I was told that the M14 would be shipped, and assumed it was correct. Am I wrong for assuming? Yes, but I didn't keep it until the M4 arrived, I wasn't able to get home to do anything about it until the Friday, which happened to be when the M4 arrived.

2 - PEQ

Quote:
Apparently the PEQ issue you were well aware of, so you shouldn't be acting like it's some big surprise
I was told the GP PEQ was broken and the ICS was fine. I can take screencaps of the PMs if you wish. Instead of a good condition, ready to roll PEQ, I received a useless broken one.

3 - M203

I was never made aware that the M203 and RIS connection was not solid. In fact his locked for sale thread states that the gun is in good condition, I'd hardly call that good condition.

The M14 was shipped in mint condition, the claim J-AIR sent me was that it was fucked in shipping, and this claim was only made AFTER I sent him the list of problems, not the day the problems took place. If you received a gun that was FUBARED on arrival, by the looks of it due to CP negligence (which again, is what is stated in the PM), would you not contact the seller immediately, and make the first steps to making a claim? Hell J-AIR hasn't even provided me with pictures of the fubared M14 like he said he would. Given he said he would do it, not when I requested them, but at some point, when he felt like it.

Not only that, but if I fucked HIM over so badly, why did he not open a dialogue to me about it? Why is it that these claims only come after I confronted him about problems with the M4?

As for the comment about him shipping a $1000 gun for a used M14. His M4 was well, well used as well, and the M14 package, given how NEW it was (used in ONE FR game), works out to about the same price. $1005 for a TM M14 + 6 additional mags + large batt, for the M4 pkg he was selling for $1000. Don't try to pull that convenient spin wording with me.
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