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TTAC3/EOTEC goes to "Realcap" only

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Old January 30th, 2006, 15:38   #16
Wiersema
 
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Personally I beleive that all airsoft games held should be played with "realcap" mags only. Any games with organization. The only weapons that should use highcap mags should be the M-249's. But those should be loaded to a max of 220 rounds as per real ammo boxs. As per how many mags a player should have. The number should be 5 along with 100 rounds to rebalm mags. As this is how much ammo a CF member carries on operation.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 15:48   #17
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You also have to remember that unlike real bullets, one BB is unlikely to get its 'kill' across.

This is to say, one bullet will have an immediate effect on your target either killing him/her outright or at least effecting tremendous physical trauma.

One BB, on the other hand, is unlikely to be felt or even noticed. You'll need several BBs on target to 'kill' your opponent.

I'm sure we've all had this happen to us before: lighting up a guy with a short burst, he doesn't feel it, and you have to follow that up with two or three more bursts before he'll call out. BBs just don't carry the same effect.

In a similar situation with bullets, however, you can be assured that if your rounds are on target, your opponent will be done after the first or second rounds.

This is not to justify the use of ridiculous highcaps, but rather to place into context the balance between being 'realistic' and being realistic about BB terminal ballistics.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 15:57   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle
I think that too many people rely overmuch on volume of fire to acheve results.

I soo have to get a game in at your field - sounds like you host my kind of shindig
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Old January 30th, 2006, 16:13   #19
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Originally Posted by Yuxi
If you think there is hosing in North American games, you have not see anything yet, especially compared to Asia where BBs are cheap as dirt and the electric box mags are real popular.
I don't agree with that 100%. I played a few large games in Japan and there was a 'typical' mix of high and low caps. Nothing you wouldn't expect to see at any game around here.

The biggest difference I noticed was the volume of SAW's. There is probly one for every 10-15 players. Here there is one for every 40-50.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 16:35   #20
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Having used stars for my M4 since i got into airsoft i have to agree sometimes the single shot is ignored or not noticed. IMO the 68 round low caps are far closer to a realistil ammo count than the 30, where a leaf or slight breeze can deflect your shot. Now you are playin inside and that will make all the difference,

Havnt played in Asia tho seen some pics of the bloody wealts left by super upgraded guns and mad rates of fire... not so intrested... And i think you will find SAW's far more common in the next while with star bringing out their "McDonalds" brand 249.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 16:36   #21
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I don't much care who or where the highcap was invented.. nor where it is used to the best effect. I just don't like what effect it has on the players skills.

When we sweep up after a session at TTAC3 I think of all those bbs as spent casings... and it boggles the mind... in bullet terms we blow off thousands of dollars every session... This is the relative benefit to airsoft as a training simulator.. near real handling... and weight.. fraction of a penny a shot.... Now all we have to do is ensure we are taking the simulation to the next logical step. "realcap" loadouts.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 16:41   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groombug
You also have to remember that unlike real bullets, one BB is unlikely to get its 'kill' across.

<snipped>
This is not to justify the use of ridiculous highcaps, but rather to place into context the balance between being 'realistic' and being realistic about BB terminal ballistics.
I think there is merit in this .. and I will amend the rule for outside play, to lowcap only.. but the capacity of the lowcap. I think that this adresses the effectiveness of fire within the effective range of these simulators.

I have amended the original post to reflect a change in doctrin
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Old January 30th, 2006, 16:56   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiersema
Personally I beleive that all airsoft games held should be played with "realcap" mags only. Any games with organization. The only weapons that should use highcap mags should be the M-249's. But those should be loaded to a max of 220 rounds as per real ammo boxs. As per how many mags a player should have. The number should be 5 along with 100 rounds to rebalm mags. As this is how much ammo a CF member carries on operation.
As said before 1 bb does not equal one real world round and never will. Perhaps in OBUA it's not so bad, but definetly not true when playing anywhere with vegetation. Also, CF members use as much as needed. My buddy just got back from Kabul not too long ago. He was issued 15 mags along with an extra 100 rounds. (10 always loaded and 5 unloaded). The five is rotated through the other ten in order to ease the compressed springs.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:03   #24
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Originally Posted by Groombug
One BB, on the other hand, is unlikely to be felt or even noticed. You'll need several BBs on target to 'kill' your opponent.
Outdoors, definately. Indoors in CQB will probably be a little less ambiguous. Even that one BB was very noticble at TTAC3. Not that I am whining or anything
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:11   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groombug
One BB, on the other hand, is unlikely to be felt or even noticed. You'll need several BBs on target to 'kill' your opponent.
Outdoors, definately. Indoors in CQB will probably be a little less ambiguous. Even that one BB was very noticble at TTAC3. Not that I am whining or anything
Agreed.

Perhaps I should have been clear. My fault.

I was speaking from an outdoor POV, mainly because I play outdoors.

Brian, thanks for the consideration. Ricouis brings up a good point. I think the 33/indoors should remain.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:48   #26
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Brian, what is your tolerance with M203 shells? I understand that the realism is completely the opposite to that of real steel. The Airsoft M203's are really only 'useful' in close range engagments...
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:50   #27
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Brian you rock.
Lowcaps only is what TKF is all about. (In fact that is what the latin in our sigs mean)
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:52   #28
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yeah, fuck you hicaps.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 17:52   #29
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Wiersema, yea 5 mags for a Reserve FTX, but on Operation, you get more.

Also, Yuxi, the US isn't issuing out full auto M4s to everyone. Only Special Ops types get them, AFAIK everyone else gets M4s with only Semi Auto an 3 round burst.

Anywho, semi auto is all you need IMO.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 18:02   #30
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All I can say is....'Finally....'
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