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Combustion powered airsoft guns - a revolution?

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Old December 21st, 2005, 07:38   #31
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Interesting, but... how would the hopup deal with the heat? And what would the velocity be?
Using a different propellant method that involves ignition may also place the airsoft in a different 'weapon' category the moment some twit at CFC looks at it and thinks he/she has to meddle.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 09:53   #32
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Hop up is a tough one to call. Silicone rubbers are pretty good at handling high temperature. In industry, silicone is often used for high temp applications. Unfortunately the flame front can get pretty damn hot. Well beyond what silicone rubber can handle. I thought about a way to spoot in a drop or two of oil into the sealing area with every shot to provide a film barrier which was sacrificial to protect elastomer parts. The idea was to keep them wetted so the liquid would absorb heat with firing cycles and keep the rubber part temps down. But then you get into barrel fouling not to mention the potential generation of carcinogenic/stinky crap with each shot.

I think we kind of suffer from being potentially described in an AOW kind of category as it is already, but I can see how burning stuff doesn't help assuage soccermom fears.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 11:03   #33
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The only advantage this has is to replace GBB sidearms and shotguns, really. The velocity isn't anything to shout about according to that page, and neither is the 4 rounds a second. It wouldn't effect rifles since they gun off rechargeable batteries anyway, plus it said it was a pump-action only mechanism. Its too much trouble to go to just so you can say "my gun is one step closer to the real thing."

If it really costs the $700 quoted earlier to make this, you can go buy a real gun!
 
Old December 21st, 2005, 11:11   #34
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News flash people: airsoft guns are already considered firearms under the Criminal Code because they are a barrelled weapon that discharges a shot or projectile, however they are exempt from most restrictions because of their low muzzle velocity and energy. The CCC and Firearms Act say absolutely nothing about combustion or fire being necessary for a weapon to be classified as a firearm; many spring or gas powered pellet rifles are registered firearms because they can shoot 800 fps.

With the 5.7 Joule limit added to the regulations, we can push a 0.2g to 785.5 fps before we have to register our airsoft guns. I doubt anyone will be gaming with something that fast.

Quote:
If it really costs the $700 quoted earlier to make this, you can go buy a real gun!
That's nothing, I just spent double that on a stock AEG. I'd also like to see how you plan on gaming with a real gun.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 11:29   #35
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I know what you mean. A friend of mine was considering playing airsoft but when he saw the cost he decided to get a real gun for a lot less.

I didn't mean you could game with a real gun, though it would be interesting. Overcrowded prisons? No big deal, set the convicts out into the forest and give the members of this forum rifles and a licence to kill. :duke:
 
Old December 21st, 2005, 12:27   #36
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I cant image how neat it would be on my M24.....
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:29   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coma Black
I know what you mean. A friend of mine was considering playing airsoft but when he saw the cost he decided to get a real gun for a lot less.

I didn't mean you could game with a real gun, though it would be interesting. Overcrowded prisons? No big deal, set the convicts out into the forest and give the members of this forum rifles and a licence to kill. :duke:
riiiight.... 8-O :smack:
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:31   #38
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Hop up is a non issue...I think. Something similar to the tippmann flatline barrel could be incorporated.

"The Flatline barrel is curved slightly, and the inside has a course texture, in order to put a backspin on the paintball."

-Cheese
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:32   #39
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A grooved barrel, like the real deal or pellets guns could be good too. Won't give you range, but will keep acuracy to a acceptable standard.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:46   #40
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Like Madmax said the combustion chamber takes space, but is that really an issue?

Many guns have a full stock version, which is known and if you're willing to have an external system (Just toss it in a bag on your back with a hose), then couldn't the combustion chamber be lodged in the stock?

When we're using this kind of system, we really have no reason for a big battery, although a small one for loading the BBs and sparking the gas would be an idea.

Could this not be possible? Madmax?
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Old December 21st, 2005, 14:06   #41
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Not to mention the combustion chamber could be made much smaller in an airsoft gun as it has far less mass to push. A full stocked rifle may be able to utilize a reservoir the size of a GBB mag and get a full day's worth of gaming on it, and squeeze the combustion chamber in next to it no?
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Old December 21st, 2005, 14:14   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
There are precidents already set for butane powered devices like nailguns. They don't exceed the muzzle energy or FPS limits so they're not firearms. Neither are gunpowder propelled nail drivers.
But they don't LOOK like guns really either. My point was that we've enough trouble with our guns as it is....having them combust propane to fire a projectile is one huge step in the wrong direction....

If our guns looked like paintball guns, or nail guns then I don't think it would be an issue but...as it stands ( IMO ) if we started to have airsoft guns that "fired" bb's through a combustion process we would see our sport banned much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by W.K.Shuridys
News flash people: airsoft guns are already considered firearms under the Criminal Code because they are a barrelled weapon that discharges a shot or projectile, however they are exempt from most restrictions because of their low muzzle velocity and energy. The CCC and Firearms Act say absolutely nothing about combustion or fire being necessary for a weapon to be classified as a firearm; many spring or gas powered pellet rifles are registered firearms because they can shoot 800 fps.
That is correct, but I'm talking about how politicians and policy makers will twist the facts, airsoft is in a bad state now as they are evil black guns....I think making them even more like guns would be a very bad idea.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 14:15   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.K.Shuridys
Not to mention the combustion chamber could be made much smaller in an airsoft gun as it has far less mass to push. A full stocked rifle may be able to utilize a reservoir the size of a GBB mag and get a full day's worth of gaming on it, and squeeze the combustion chamber in next to it no?
Doesn't look like anyone did any reading -

There are physical reasons why the combustion chamber cannot be shrunk, unless it's drastically altered, and likely in a way that doesn't really do anything practical or functional in terms of making it more "airsoft friendly".

Madmax explained that. You can't generate the same conditions as in the Tippmann C3 on a smaller scale just by shrinking all the parts. At least, that's the way I read it.

Other alternatives might be other fuel sources, or a redesign, but those are both good reasons to say "Wow.. the C3 is a neat idea, but it doesn't really do anything for us ... " :hammer:
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Old December 21st, 2005, 14:16   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortexburn
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
There are precidents already set for butane powered devices like nailguns. They don't exceed the muzzle energy or FPS limits so they're not firearms. Neither are gunpowder propelled nail drivers.
But they don't LOOK like guns really either. My point was that we've enough trouble with our guns as it is....having them combust propane to fire a projectile is one huge step in the wrong direction....

If our guns looked like paintball guns, or nail guns then I don't think it would be an issue but...as it stands ( IMO ) if we started to have airsoft guns that "fired" bb's through a combustion process we would see our sport banned much faster.
I still think walking away from new ideas for reasons like that is a way worse step in the wrong direction... (sorry - double post)
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Old December 21st, 2005, 14:21   #45
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Sorry Mysteryfish...I edited my post to add my reasoning and you posted after.

I personally like the idea, but think it would be a mistake to implement it unless things change with Airsoft for the better first.
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