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Old July 6th, 2016, 21:04   #1
mikebarkski
 
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Airsoft range...

i am wondering how people are managing to get such good range? I hear so many talk about guns that reach past 250 feet but i measured a co2 uzi, a pistol both with propane & co2 mags and a g&g aeg and they were all about the same 120 feet max befor veering off....is this normal? i played with the hop ups with all three a little w/ little affect, at 50 feet they can all hit apples fine in one shot other than the uzi taking 3...do i pretty much have to put some kind of new gearbox or hop up on a gun to get it to reach 90+yard or 300 feet? i am outside with .2g bb..
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Old July 6th, 2016, 21:43   #2
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try a different hop up rubber and try using heavier bb's
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Old July 6th, 2016, 21:51   #3
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Originally Posted by mikebarkski View Post
i am wondering how people are managing to get such good range? I hear so many talk about guns that reach past 250 feet but i measured a co2 uzi, a pistol both with propane & co2 mags and a g&g aeg and they were all about the same 120 feet max befor veering off....is this normal? i played with the hop ups with all three a little w/ little affect, at 50 feet they can all hit apples fine in one shot other than the uzi taking 3...do i pretty much have to put some kind of new gearbox or hop up on a gun to get it to reach 90+yard or 300 feet? i am outside with .2g bb..
A lot of us here (myself included) extensively upgrade our rifles and pistols. Many rifles are R-hopped and we're using quality barrels with quality heavyweight BBs. 250 feet is stretching it just a little for AEGs; there are those that can do it, but that's starting to be more of a maximum range rather than an effective range, which would be around 200 feet. Now, sniper rifles that have been properly tuned (and KJW KC-02s as well supposedly), should be able to reach out to 250 feet to 300 feet as their effective range.

Basically, we're starting with a good quality base gun, putting lots of time, money, and energy into squeezing the best performance out of it by using high quality parts that are installed properly, and tuning it so it shoots the way we expect.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 22:01   #4
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High end, CLEAN barrels!
R-hops are great for running heavier weights which are less affected by wind, etc so they tend to fly further and straighter longer.
Perfect air seal to make sure your shot to shot are consistent.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 22:02   #5
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Well, two things.

1. Most people bullshit their accuracy claims.
2. Your guns are probably not that great, no offense.

Assuming guns are field legal, under 400 FPS with .2g and not greater than 1.5J using heavier ammo, a well upgraded gun can hit a one foot grouping or better at 200 feet. You can still accurately engage targets beyond that, but by the time you get to 250 feet you're either cranking your hop up or lobbing. You can hit shit at that range, but you're bullshitting yourself with a numbers game where you're using extremely impractical shooting trajectories.

The other thing people like to do is shoot into a field and misjudge distance. Since BBs are small, people always think they are flying much farther than they actually are.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 22:04   #6
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Hop, barrel grouping, air seal, nozzle versus stability, high quality BBs, cycle versus tolerances, FPS versus BB weight.

GBBRs/GBBPs can be unstable and produce varying results based on temperature, gas flow, if it's their time of the month, etc. it can be controlled, but stock or low end gas platforms may produce low results.

In general, it's the spin and stability of your round that makes all the difference. Hop-ups should have a nice contact area, placing stable pressure on the round, with the right quality and hardness of rubber being used to make that contact. In general, the modern flat hop or R-hop is arguably the best choice.

From there, you'll want to use quality and reliable BBs, also selecting the heaviest weight your gun can shoot EFFECTIVELY! This is super important because of the BB struggles to go (make range/low, low speed), then you could be too heavy. Also, low end of even mediocre BBs may produce uneven or even terrible results. All that being said, if your gun can't deliver a 0.28g round effectively, then you have problems. That weight is the standard of modern times. BB Bastard, Elite Force, Green Devil, Bio Shot, are all solid brands to start with.

Next is your barrel group. Your barrel should be high quality and no tighter than 6.03 - 6.04mm, in fact I'd recommend one of those, or go wide-bore miracle or something, but not necessary. Stainless steel Prometheus are the high standard, or even PDI is good, but there are others depending on your platform. Barrel length can add a little jam, but you wanna make sure it's not much longer than necessary. Longer barrels will foul easier from dirt/dust and that extra length doesn't really help you. You also want to make sure you have a good seal between the nozzle and barrel grouping to ensure a consistent and stable BB flight.

(Note: make sure your magazines are feeding nicely, as that may also affect the process)

Next you can upgrade the nozzle (if necessary) to help deliver that stable and consistent shot. If by now you're not seeing a range and consistency improvement, something went wrong or your gun is super seriously under powered. Get it chrono'd and recheck all parts that have been modded/upgraded, etc. this assuming of course you've tried a few different weights of high quality BB to attain proper results.

If you find your gun is under powered, or you've gone as far as you can go, then power/velocity upgrades are the key. Start with your cylinder and work backwards through gears, motor, casing, battery, etc, to smooth out the cycling and a higher FPS MIGHT allow you to run heavier rounds, which might help with distance and stability. Round weights like 0.28g, 0.30g, 0.32g, etc, are all good if your gun shoots them efficiently. The heavier the round, the longer it may stay in flight, produce a stable spin and chop through brush and fight wind. This all heavily depends on your hop-up being crack by the way, so that's number one with a bullet always.

It is important to remember that some platforms just max out and that one isn't necessarily equal to the next in potential. Your primary's should be able to hit a man sized target consistently at 200 feet plus, with a flight past that mark. Setting your hop to lift and then fall at the right time is crucial as well and learn at what distance you gain the best effect. Basically trial and error.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 00:16   #7
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beyond 200ft you are lobbing and hoping for some luck with wind or a bb that is properly centered with no flight balance issues. 200ft or 60m should be very doable with proper ammo and good setups. 300ft or 91m is difficult and lots of luck is involved with a lot of lob.

The more good upgrades with quality parts and hop with a good consistent bb with no weird flight characteristics still requires some degree of luck, your target has to not move, the wind can't gust, flight path must be clear and the bb must fly true. Even the highest quality bbs and best upgrades will still give you a fairly large cone of impact at 91m. Also naked eye shots or red dot assisted shots are hard. Unless you have perfect vision BBs start disappearing from the naked eye at 50-55m. So some magnification will help in locating the fall pattern of your shots. A decent scope will help. at 90m 4-6x is probably ideal.

I've made a lot of shots in the 70-80m range where I've gone back to measure exactly with spotting scope, tape/rope or satellite imagery to get an idea of what the general distances were. Being able to do that can help you get better at shooting if you know what your gun can do. If your gun is consistent and reliable, you can start to figure out what degree of lob you need or how much to the side you need to hold because of a breeze or just the way the bb will hook given how your hopup is lined up.

Keep in mind at these ranges you're not hoping to hit something the size of an apple. You're trying to hit something the size of a man, you don't necessarily care what you hit.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 00:21   #8
ThunderCactus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkingknight View Post
beyond 200ft you are lobbing and hoping for some luck with wind or a bb that is properly centered with no flight balance issues. 200ft or 60m should be very doable with proper ammo and good setups. 300ft or 91m is difficult and lots of luck is involved with a lot of lob.
250ft is pretty typical for my team. Our ptws and aegs all get 16" or smaller groupings at 250ft.
Ive made single shot 300ft kills before. Come windy days its still not uncommon to make 200ft shots.
Id agree most stock guns are usually in the 100-200ft range and are lobbing pretty hard to get past 200.

Also guys, come on. I made a sticky thread for this exact reason lol

Short answer is; your BBs are way too light and your hopup is inferior.
Long answer is in the link below
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=166583
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Last edited by ThunderCactus; July 7th, 2016 at 00:23..
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Old July 7th, 2016, 00:29   #9
Ricochet
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I wouldn't recommend zoom necessarily. If you can't see the rounds, get contacts before a scope. I've moved off of sights to high end irons, not that a good sight doesn't work in Airsoft. Think of it this way; you've got to get you gun/hop centered before you worry about sights. A zoom can often throw off the look of the round, so you really have to know your gun, but a red dot is good CQB unless properly paired with an iron. Good eye realized either way is a boon in airsoft. We aren't firing bullets, so forgiveness is key.

Anyways, we were talking about distance. Read Thunder's thread, it has lots of good info. If you want success, start with the right tools and go from there.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:04   #10
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Also, as a general rule of thumb, the stronger your gun shoots, the harder it gets to make it precise. If you have a platform that shoots well at lower power, it might not be worth it to increase power, as you might get BBs flying farther, but lose accuracy and make your effective range shorter. All the little problems get amplified at high power (air leaks, vibrations, problems due to low tolerances, etc). These guns are best left at lower power, unless you are willing to do a serious overhaul and upgrade many components.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:17   #11
Ricochet
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Originally Posted by Drakker View Post
Also, as a general rule of thumb, the stronger your gun shoots, the harder it gets to make it precise. If you have a platform that shoots well at lower power, it might not be worth it to increase power, as you might get BBs flying farther, but lose accuracy and make your effective range shorter. All the little problems get amplified at high power (air leaks, vibrations, problems due to low tolerances, etc). These guns are best left at lower power, unless you are willing to do a serious overhaul and upgrade many components.
This is true.

My gun, for example, shoots sub 400 FPD on 0.20g rounds and doesn't suffer from joule creep, so my FPS goes down as my round weight goes up and remains under 1.5 joules. I can consistently shoot 0.28g and 0.30g rounds out past 200 - 250 accurately and consistently.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 14:04   #12
ThunderCactus
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Losing accuracy due to running higher fps is usually because of people not using the corresponding heavier weight of ammo.
If your gun shoots accurately to 150ft on .25s at 1j, then you upgrade to 1.6j, well your gun is still accurate at 150ft, but it doesnt matter because you're shooting 200ft and the accuracy os garbage.
But you should be using .28s or .30s.

Anyway this is explained in that thread
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Old July 7th, 2016, 16:20   #13
mikebarkski
 
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thx

this was all really usefull, epecially the link to that other thread there...i think i will try switchin from .2 to .28s before i look into upgrading any barrels or hop-up parts. And ill definately try cleaning all my barrells using that stick that came with my aeg...to be honnest i dont wanna start putting mods on and making upgrades until i get AVd cause it will just be that much easier to get help, if it were expensive i think id want to take it to a shop just to be sure ive installed it correctly. although i have one of those clear plastic HK416 that likes to jam, and since i cant sell the thing i may take some time to learn with it by taking it apart, it was only 100 bucks and came with a shitty battery, charger, and can still use the mag if i totally break it..
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Old July 7th, 2016, 16:42   #14
Ricochet
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Don't run that rod THROUGH the hop unit. Make sure you stop before that or you'll tear your bucking.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 19:56   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
250ft is pretty typical for my team. Our ptws and aegs all get 16" or smaller groupings at 250ft.
Ive made single shot 300ft kills before. Come windy days its still not uncommon to make 200ft shots.
Id agree most stock guns are usually in the 100-200ft range and are lobbing pretty hard to get past 200.

Also guys, come on. I made a sticky thread for this exact reason lol

Short answer is; your BBs are way too light and your hopup is inferior.
Long answer is in the link below
http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=166583


Wow, my eyes have been opened. Thanks for posting all this good info.


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