Airsoft Canada
AirsoftParts.ca

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > ASC News and Announcements
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

Has Honour and Respect in Airsoft Died?

:

ASC News and Announcements

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 18th, 2015, 11:34   #106
Kokanee
Ministry of Peace
 
Kokanee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Spruce Grove, AB
IMHO what more areas/cities need are player-driven organizations to organize events, clamp down on "problem players", mentor new players, and actively promote the positive growth of the sport.

That's what we're doing in Edmonton; http://edmontonairsoft.net/

By replacing the defunct "Edmonton Airsoft Regiment" community with a private club instead, we're making great strides towards building a core of players who are the "movers and shakers". We're getting game organizers together to ensure that games aren't scheduled over top of each other, we've gotten retailers onboard to provide benefits, and we're even working towards holding an "Edmonton Airsoft Expo" in the spring.

It's easy to bitch and moan about new players having no respect or honour; if that is the case where you are organize the established players and start to do something about it.
Kokanee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2015, 12:02   #107
naminator
 
naminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lloydminster
I walked into 007 airsoft the other day. They now have several employees. I was chatting with an employee that had a gun identical to mine. We discussed future plans for our guns. Another employee asked me about HPA tapping a rifle. He then told me he had almost zero knowledge about HPA system, and is not part of ASC or any other groups. I told him my information was mostly from ASC/other forums and I suggested he sign up. He was very hesitant.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoSeven View Post
1+1 = 2
Were you maybe expecting 1+1 = donut?
naminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2015, 12:56   #108
theshaneler
 
theshaneler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Taber, AB
like aper said, there is a large portion of the older community moving on to other things, and a lack of knowledge being passed on. But the old players are not 100% to blame, it's not their responsibility to teach if they no longer have interest.
Worse than that, I have found new players to not listen when information is being passed on. This has been my 10th season of airsoft and last year I moved to the Lethbridge area. the sport is super "young" (not necessarily player age wise) here, and a large portion of players have recently switched over from paintball. After playing a year of scrims here, I decided to run an intro to airsoft course to help steer the community towards a more old school type mindset. (hicaps bad, semi auto good ect.) I went over guns, gear, upgrades, game types, organized a kill house and ran scrims. I did not charge for this event, and even got the field hosting it to offer a discounted field fee. Attendance was terrible and those who did show up, where mostly not paying attention. guys did not really want to work on basics in the killhouse but just wanted to scrim.
Its actually quite frustrating trying to pass on the information accrued over the last 10 seasons and no one listens. seriously, I suggested players try using mid or low caps and semi auto fire for 3 games and they will see how much they improve and I had guys coming to talk to me after saying all I was trying to do was make the game less fun and new players at a disadvantage....

After attending a couple OPs in the area, battlefield series game held in early summer, and a resent OP put on by a local player. I have been inclined to try my efforts again in a more directed manor. (specifically how to prepare and play a game that is not just a scrim) Over the last summer, players from the area have attended these OPs completely unprepared. People have literally come to these 6+hr OPs with iced tea in their cammelbacks and chocolate bars for food.
The only thing making me hesitate is the thought that it will be a waste again. The people who should attend will not, and the ones who do, will either know the information already and are showing up to support the cause, or just not listen.

the only thing really keeping me in airsoft lately is the fact that there is no real active IDPA in the area, but the 2 hr drive up to Calgary is looking more and more attractive.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by White_knight View Post
Wildcard his gun is better than all of yours, he has magpul stuff on it, all the magpuls you can dream of. He has all of them. On his gun. I wish I had magpuls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curo View Post
Look at all the fucks no one gives Miles, look at them. There is a lot of fucks not being given.
theshaneler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2015, 14:01   #109
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Theshaneler, you should contact ACT in Lethbridge. They are a good group of guys and only a little ways away from you. PL19 on here is one of their head guys, feel free to PM him. I believe they use a field in Taber as well.

Some of you are saying that people wouldn't join an association and I'm saying, "who cares?". Those that don't join the organized association don't play with them, nor can you attend one of their events. So this gives experienced players and driven new players a place and/or events to play at, without all the willy-nilly players or crappy attitude players. You'd have to register with them to get the benefits, making it easier to track problem players.

Once this gains traction over time and could prove stability, it would attract more and more players. At least in theory. You'd never, ever, ever know for certain if it would work, but it would certainly be worth the try.
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2015, 14:12   #110
Grudge
multitech
 
Grudge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: with your girlfriend, playing with her P90.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post

Some of you are saying that people wouldn't join an association and I'm saying, "who cares?". Those that don't join the organized association don't play with them, nor can you attend one of their events. So this gives experienced players and driven new players a place and/or events to play at, without all the willy-nilly players or crappy attitude players. You'd have to register with them to get the benefits, making it easier to track problem players.

Once this gains traction over time and could prove stability, it would attract more and more players. At least in theory. You'd never, ever, ever know for certain if it would work, but it would certainly be worth the try.
You need to get a lot of buy in from all the fields. If each field is doing their own thing or feel that lowering the bar draws bigger crowds then it doesn't work. And you end up with what is currently happening.

The UK model works, somewhat, cause you have to be a member of a field or you can't get good guns. The fields all run a similar model, but there are still the same problems we have here, just look at some of the videos.

I love the idea of helping to raise up the next gen of Airsofters, but you also need a willing group (like TheShaneler said) or it gets very tiresome.
__________________
Nothing says loving, like a head shot!
Grudge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2015, 15:04   #111
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Yeah, sure enough. With enough members however, you could rent fields or large portions of them at any rate.
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2015, 02:57   #112
waylander
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyEyes View Post
People keep saying COD but I actually don't know what that means. Is that like paintball's run-and-gun tactics?
I believe that COD refers to Call Of Duty... a popular video game franchise which is based more on a run and gun style of play as opposed to something requiring more patience and team work. I've been playing FPS (first person shooter) games since 2000 and COD is probably one of the worst games in the genre. It is NOT a one shot one kill type game which is why COD gamers tend to spray rounds ,which is why the players that have the mindset of full auto your opponent in airsoft are labeled as COD type players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post

Some of you are saying that people wouldn't join an association and I'm saying, "who cares?". Those that don't join the organized association don't play with them, nor can you attend one of their events. So this gives experienced players and driven new players a place and/or events to play at, without all the willy-nilly players or crappy attitude players. You'd have to register with them to get the benefits, making it easier to track problem players.

Once this gains traction over time and could prove stability, it would attract more and more players. At least in theory. You'd never, ever, ever know for certain if it would work, but it would certainly be worth the try.
See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
IMHO what more areas/cities need are player-driven organizations to organize events, clamp down on "problem players", mentor new players, and actively promote the positive growth of the sport.

That's what we're doing in Edmonton; http://edmontonairsoft.net/

By replacing the defunct "Edmonton Airsoft Regiment" community with a private club instead, we're making great strides towards building a core of players who are the "movers and shakers". We're getting game organizers together to ensure that games aren't scheduled over top of each other, we've gotten retailers onboard to provide benefits, and we're even working towards holding an "Edmonton Airsoft Expo" in the spring.

It's easy to bitch and moan about new players having no respect or honour; if that is the case where you are organize the established players and start to do something about it.
Just to clarify though, this isn't like an invite only private club... anyone can join but it does involve a membership fee which will be used to further the clubs goals. There will be elections next year for the 2017 governing body.

The main thing was to bring organization to the sport in Edmonton and help teach the next generation... in the end, if required, would be able to enforce club rules at club events.

Keep in mind that I've been playing for 2 years so I guess you could say I am the "next generation" even if I am over 35 (no I won't tell you how much over ).

I have read every post on here and I honestly can't say anyone is wrong.... everyone has their own viewpoint because everyone plays for different reasons, have different incomes, different life situations... etc. Sure I know the guys that have upwards of $10K invested and others that rent and play in hoodies... I get along with them all. Don't judge lest you be judged. I have been accused of being a cheater more often by guys in "leet" looking gear that couldn't hit the side of a barn than I have by new players.

Honour and Respect... that's hard... can you teach it? Definitely. But, as a father I will tell you that the time to teach it is way before you'll ever see them on an airsoft field... Not saying that it can't be learned later in life, just that basic codes like that are typically taught at a much younger age. It's not a skill, it's a mindset, a way of life. Some have it, some don't.

So I see this less as a discussion about honour and respect, it's more one of dealing with those that don't have it. When I started playing I gravitated to playing with those with a mindset like mine. If my first foray had been with cheaters I would have left them. Also, many younger players have something to prove. This is not just a stereotype, we all know what social pressure was like in high school. While never having been bullied I have had friends that were, the mindset that leads to that sort of behavior again, was set at a much younger age. Sense of entitlement is the same, my kids earn everything they want.... there is no value to getting something for free. In the end, what we are discussing is enforcing our micro-societal morals/values on those that do not have those same morals/values by using a set of rules to protect the common good. The ONLY way that works is joint effort.
waylander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2015, 20:40   #113
hellhound
 
hellhound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dog House
Send a message via MSN to hellhound
that is part of the reason why i gave up the sport
__________________
Reality is only an illusion caused by a deficiency of alcohol
hellhound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2015, 15:12   #114
Parody
 
Parody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Peterborough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aper View Post
Veteran players with 10+ years in airsoft are getting out of airsoft more and more and/or and playing very few good listed games per year; Real Steel conversion, having kids now, having other hobbies, ect ect. Old blood being replaced with new blood without the proper teaching of old values we used to have and preach back then leads to new players being clueless about the real brotherhood and comradery we had when we, old players, used to live with. Having less veteran players means having less icons for the sport to teach newcomers the basics.
-Amen to this.
__________________
-Parody
-Tombstone Recon: T.S.R Unit E.O.D Class Specialists
Parody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2015, 20:47   #115
Metalsynth
 
Metalsynth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Preaching values is irrelevant. I've been doing bootcamps for the past 4 years and have been involved in numerous games from near or far wether high or low profile.

The problem today is lack of consequences.

Acts like an arrogant ass to admins... No ass kicking.

Organisers need to band together and make bans hold from one end of the spectrum to the other.

This has already started here. The honeymoon that walkin stores have created is over. We need to look at paintball now for answers because they are already at that point.

Unleash the kraken so that it may smite the shit out one piss player at a time
__________________

Master Age Verifier REP QC
Certified Level 2 BA Sniper
Si ton épée est trop courte, allonge la d'un pas. ( Proverbe Hongrois )
Metalsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2015, 21:09   #116
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Exactly, come up with solutions instead of pointing out all the reasons it's falling apart. I don't know if I agree with the "look to paintball" remark though. Paintball has two speeds that I've seen; hardcore tournament guys, who wear motocross gear, scream at one another and never call their hits, or the paintball version of what we're bitching about in airsoft right now, and it's all dying out...
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2015, 22:44   #117
Cliffradical
butthurt for not having a user title
 
Cliffradical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
When I began playing paintball, I was 17. I had picked up a basic semi- auto, and had no idea what I was doing, I just really, really wanted to play.
I went to a couple of games at a local field (for profit business), and no one really helped me or instructed me at all. "Here you go, kid. NEXT!"
I kind of learned to ignore what was going on around me, and just play for myself, inventing my own narrative and structure of play within the rules (because rules are good, right?). Friends wanted to share the experience after I'd told my tall tales, but none of them were actually interested. I was alone, but I accepted that because all of the dirt and noise and 'pain for gain' was worth it.

Then I went to my first scenario game, a true shit show, and ended up in the same place at the same time as some other, older players. They were playing the game that I wanted to play, but I didn't know how. "Hey buddy" one whispered "Get down low and come over here, behind us". I was in awe, but motivated, so I scuttled all knees and elbows over there. "There's a group of them all bunched up about 30 feet through the bush and down the hill, me and Koop are gonna flank left and right. We're on pumps and you've got a semi, so give us 45 seconds and then just hammer the bush, K?".

I think I only waited about 20 of those 45 seconds, but I let my BT roar and they sorted the "Bad Guys" out. The rest of the day was spent hiding, flanking, and harassing the "enemy" team. Afterwards, I got an invitation to games hosted by guys a decade older than the ones I'd met. They allowed me to use what I had, but eventually I knew I needed to get serious and buy my own pump gun, which ended up being some kind of brass Sheridan Magnum. I got made fun of a little bit (the hardened vets were using stock - class CCI Magnums), but it was sold to me in trust by one of the guys who brought me in, and I had the sneaking suspicion it had been handed down the line.

These guys taught me honor, respect, knowing everyone you're shooting at as a human being, what to buy and what not to, and not only that there would be hell to pay for fucking up, but that you could atone for missteps. If you were willing to learn, there would always be a place for you.
These guys still play. Less than they'd like I'm sure, but they still play.

There's all kinds of major and minor variants of Paintball. There's a huge spectrum of players pegged between "Motocross outfits" and "Simulated Airsoft". Each generation has felt it's time wax and wane, but the guys who keep playing still get to play the game they like.
The only way to ensure that your preferred game type persists is by nourishing it;

-Send out feelers:
Find younger players caught in the middle of the shitshow and fucking help them
-Don't shit on other groups:
If they play a different style, play to their rules on their turf (protect yourself accordingly), and make sure they know your rules up front when they come to your house.
-Distance yourself from the general public, but know that they're your recruiting pool:
'Nuff said.
-Shit or get off the pot:
If people want to leave because no one will enforce the rules they like, they divest themselves of all responsibility, and can be mourned for their loss but ultimately ignored.
Hard fact to swallow, but really.
-Crossover is good:
Throwing yourself into a completely alien situation is great for the brain. When you make strong connections with differing groups/ play styles you grant each group mutual understanding, while breaking down barriers that might otherwise keep you from realizing that the "other guy" and his buddies are pretty much just like you. Your whole club doesn't have to do this, but the willing should be sacrificed for the Common Good.

As hard as we all might like to think we are as Jocknerds/ Nerdjocks (or actually hard in the case of Mil/ LEO), we're all just big, slobbering dorks in the end. I think acceptance of that fact will do us, as Airsofters, the best service in the end.
Cliffradical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2015, 08:48   #118
DrDoUm
 
DrDoUm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffradical View Post
These guys taught me honor, respect, The only way to ensure that your preferred game type persists is by nourishing it;

-Send out feelers:
Find younger players caught in the middle of the shitshow and fucking help them
-Don't shit on other groups:
If they play a different style, play to their rules on their turf (protect yourself accordingly), and make sure they know your rules up front when they come to your house.
-Distance yourself from the general public, but know that they're your recruiting pool:
'Nuff said.
-Shit or get off the pot:
If people want to leave because no one will enforce the rules they like, they divest themselves of all responsibility, and can be mourned for their loss but ultimately ignored.
Hard fact to swallow, but really.
-Crossover is good:
Throwing yourself into a completely alien situation is great for the brain. When you make strong connections with differing groups/ play styles you grant each group mutual understanding, while breaking down barriers that might otherwise keep you from realizing that the "other guy" and his buddies are pretty much just like you. Your whole club doesn't have to do this, but the willing should be sacrificed for the Common Good.

As hard as we all might like to think we are as Jocknerds/ Nerdjocks (or actually hard in the case of Mil/ LEO), we're all just big, slobbering dorks in the end. I think acceptance of that fact will do us, as Airsofters, the best service in the end.
This IMHO is the most constructive intervention in this thread (thread which seems to pop-up every year or so since I signed in on ASC.
__________________
DrDoUm is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > ASC News and Announcements

Bookmarks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Airsoft Canada
AirsoftParts.ca

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.