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Has Honour and Respect in Airsoft Died?

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Old September 17th, 2015, 14:13   #91
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The MAA tried that. Now its dead. ;\ LOL.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 15:59   #92
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Yeah, there was no good side to be on in that debacle.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 18:36   #93
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Yeah, fair enough, that one failed, but every other sport and physical activity on planet earth has successfully done it. Some have multiple successful associations, leagues, or whathaveyou. If we do nothing, the problem persists. This at least could create something reasonably official to attract the better potential new players and enforce things like rules, respect and honor.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 18:48   #94
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Here are my two cents

In my opinion its all about community.

If people dont feel a general sense of comradeship, usually endorsed by a competent host you get these type of problems. When I started playing in niagara back in 2010, we new players were told again and again about safety rules to the point that it became somewhat tedious, were included in squads with experienced players, and treated like everyone else. Guess what, it worked. A lot of the people whom I started with are still members of the community, and are some of the best players Ive met.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 19:28   #95
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The MAA tried that. Now its dead. ;\ LOL.
The MAA failed because it was trying to control too many aspects of airsoft.

Association or not doesnt actually matter. The only thing that matters is whos training the new guys.
You can have all the rules and mandates and regulations you want posted on the interwebs, but at the end of the day if you have a fucktard training new guys, then the new guys will be fucktards.

Teams can fund their own fields through ops. Standardized rule sets can be set through popular clubs. Culture can be established through socialization. Airsoft doesnt require a governing council in order to function and grow. Not that it will never work, but it hasnt worked so far.

Rules and regs are not substitute for actual leadership.
You get people out to noob days, teach them how to be GOOD AIRSOFTERS, and then you can train them how to play the game your way.
I know this is hard for milsim players to understand, but can play airsoft any way you like; scrims, ops, fucking soccer, full on hardcore sit-and-wait-for-8-hours milsim, but there are two major aspects that apply to every style of airsoft:
-call your hits
-and dont be a fucking asshat.

Everything else is up to the host or community.

Beer leagues and social get together leagues are fun to play in, but have nothing to do with the NHL, NFL, MLB, whatever.
Its not about governance or association, its about community .
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Old September 17th, 2015, 22:09   #96
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One of the reasons I have changed my focus to WWII events is there is never any questions regarding the motivation of participants. Also the cost to get involved is high enough that it eliminates the mag ticklers.

That said I had a really good time at this year's Nightfall event, event though it is pretty much exactly the opposite to the games I prefer.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 23:16   #97
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I think it's less of a governing body and more of a visible outlet to show new players what's out there. Not just that, but a place where teams can grow and actively recruit. If players just think, "hey, I'm gonna go get into airsoft.", then they simply exist in the system. If however, after they join, they see there's a place to unlock more friends, teams and events, they may go seeking mentoring and opportunity.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 23:54   #98
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Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
I think it's less of a governing body and more of a visible outlet to show new players what's out there. Not just that, but a place where teams can grow and actively recruit. If players just think, "hey, I'm gonna go get into airsoft.", then they simply exist in the system. If however, after they join, they see there's a place to unlock more friends, teams and events, they may go seeking mentoring and opportunity.
^ Truth

Sadly the only visible outlets like these I see/hear of now a days are Public/Private Facebook groups which are just filled with new players joining daily and completely out numbering the experienced players. Most of these groups especially the public ones are equivalent to the Newbie Tank Thread.

I think that has been a huge contributor to this entire problem. I don't really know of a resolution to fixing any of these problems, other then standing by a very very very simple rule in Airsoft/Life. DON'T BE A DICK.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 00:17   #99
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I have to disagree a little Aper. I think that there are more and more public games, in some areas becoming the main, or only outlet for airsoft, becoming a problem due to lack of control. I'm sure the old guard is doing more 'invite only' events, but that's not a new thing. Other than that I'm pretty much in full agreement.
That's exactly what Aper is talking about; money was the control. If you didn't have any, then you had to beg, borrow or rent kit from other people. This caused you to place a heavy investment of time and effort to getting into the sport.


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Once again though, unless we create some sort of association, that is built very strictly on a simple code, so we can bring in new players directly into teams, groups, or factions, thereby separating out players who want to play organized and honorable, then we'll never stop the rising of the tide.
The "association" was called ASC. If you were not a member on ASC with an AV status, you were gonna have a very hard time getting into the sport. There were some dealers that did deal publicly to some levels back in the day ((the only surviving one I can think of is 007, many have come and gone)). Or you hit up the classifieds to get in on orders for new and used kit there. That need to have AV put a strain on the ASC users that contributed to this and many slowed down or stopped out right being involved as complaints of the time it took for this system to ensure players were of legal age to purchase goods. Eventually people didn't want to be bothered with the negatives of ALWAYS being asked to meet for coffee.



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Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
I think it's less of a governing body and more of a visible outlet to show new players what's out there. Not just that, but a place where teams can grow and actively recruit. If players just think, "hey, I'm gonna go get into airsoft.", then they simply exist in the system. If however, after they join, they see there's a place to unlock more friends, teams and events, they may go seeking mentoring and opportunity.
Wait, what? I'm confused, you want what now?

There have and always will be players who think "just gonna get into airsoft" and nothing comes of it. But there has always been a wealth of knowledge available to new players online since forever. ASC is not the only gig in town for forums; there are plenty of others out there, but then generally refer to specific fields or regions. There have been attempts to make other "cross country" boards, but this one has remained mostly because it was so critical to airsofts very existence in Canada back in the day; that everyone across the nation got accounts here.

ASC is the one that came along with the AV; motivated by curbing negative public views. Are you going to say you would do away with this "governing rule?"

Through out the thread you've called for attention to head shots, FPS/Joule regulations, etc etc. But now you want to have less governing across the board? And I high lighted some of your comments in the prior post about wanting to form some sort of "association" that would strictly enforce a code ((of conduct I assume)), that would separate players whom do not conform said code. Unless there's a missing piece here, those statements are just at total odds with each other.


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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
One of the reasons I have changed my focus to WWII events is there is never any questions regarding the motivation of participants. Also the cost to get involved is high enough that it eliminates the mag ticklers.

That said I had a really good time at this year's Nightfall event, event though it is pretty much exactly the opposite to the games I prefer.
This is exactly what I was talking about. If you dump a lot of time, money and effort into achieving something; you're not going to just piss away all that commitment for a bad war story. And that mentality will carry over to the games that are less strict and more loose fun.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 00:28   #100
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Let me just point out that this exact same conversation was happening 10 years ago.

The community has grown , and fractured to a degree. but within its variations there is to be found any and all types of people and every type of event to suit each person's preference.

it is a fallacy to think that this is all one big happy family, it's not.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 01:02   #101
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Nope! Totally missed all points everywhere, on everything...

ASC is good for some things, but I'm talking about on the ground. Places to play, fields, teams, groups, etc. making something to join with a more specific goal, other than just buying a gun and playing. You wouldn't just be joining the association, you'd be joining a team or group within. Basic code of conduct would be all that is necessary to enforce within the association. Beyond that, rules would be up to the fields or hosts as always. Everyone on fields right now are anonymous from each other. There's enough people doing their own thing, lacking mentoring, or just don't know to destroy any sense of community, hence the current situation everyone is discussing. I'm not even claiming it would work, but pointing it out or doing nothing sure won't make a difference.

Now, investment certainly will have an impact on the general person, but that's no longer an option. At least about cost or where you play. Time isn't turning backwards and shit is becoming cheaper and easier to find, not less. We need to create investment and mentoring, or else nothing changes.

ASC's AV system is intelligent but not perfect, as it's always been. It's about making a safer community for everyone and overall accountability. We are putting new systems in place right now to up efficiency, but players who don't want to put in the effort may join smaller hubs for ease and convenience. We can't stop them from doing this, nor can we stop other groups from cropping up. What we can do is hold the line on being effective and hopefully be effective and relevant when shit changes again. But to give up or dump effort will certainly waste future impact opportunities. ASC is still growing and it does work. Time will tell.

Brian, myself and a few others have had similar chats before, and as I've mentioned earlier in this thread, groups that want completely different things in airsoft don't often get along. They are pulling it in different directions, while sharing space. Eventually there will be a schism, but not until appropriate options become available. For instance; Brian runs and hosts WWII themed games and events. By doing this he has created an outlet for the specific demographics interested in such airsoft styles. What I'm saying is what appears to be the 'bulk' of Airsoft, which is some version of modern warfare, which could be COD wannabe or competitive tactical and everything in between, could have more specialized outlets instead of annoying each other. But instead of making it an us or them situation, what if they had their type of airsoft being offered in an organized and rule enforced environment? Exactly what you want, but where a like minded community, who does not tolerate a few certain behaviours, build a more organized community.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 01:39   #102
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What I'm saying is what appears to be the 'bulk' of Airsoft, which is some version of modern warfare, which could be COD wannabe or competitive tactical and everything in between, could have more specialized outlets instead of annoying each other.
People keep saying COD but I actually don't know what that means. Is that like paintball's run-and-gun tactics?
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Old September 18th, 2015, 01:53   #103
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People keep saying COD but I actually don't know what that means. Is that like paintball's run-and-gun tactics?
COD players are more of the 'just doing it to be cool' group. Guys who'll wear camo they think looks cool, or that's their favorite, over what is effective. Not that that is all there is too it, but there's just one example.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 10:06   #104
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Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
I have to disagree a little Aper. I think that there are more and more public games, in some areas becoming the main, or only outlet for airsoft, becoming a problem due to lack of control. I'm sure the old guard is doing more 'invite only' events, but that's not a new thing. Other than that I'm pretty much in full agreement.

Once again though, unless we create some sort of association, that is built very strictly on a simple code, so we can bring in new players directly into teams, groups, or factions, thereby separating out players who want to play organized and honorable, then we'll never stop the rising of the tide. There's a whole whack load of new players out there, some of whom will be outstanding, and will be airsoft's positive future. So the weekend warrior types can go to public events, or whatever they want to do, players who want to step up must first travel through a filter, and then the idiots can be mostly weeded out. It's not perfect, but standing back watching and complaining isn't gonna change it. When was the last time you guys went on a huge recruitment spree for your group and then spent time mentoring?
As for public games being less common, I was talking about old players and old school hosts tending to make more private games than public ones.

But yet with the massive poll of new players, brings new hosts and new private venues, which leads to more public games in this case, and you are correct.

Even with an ''association'', there's too many players out there being independant and only playing on weekends to give a damn about such an association. The idea would've been good back in the early 2000's, but today player control for such a project is nearly impossible to keep track.

Veteran players with 10+ years in airsoft are getting out of airsoft more and more and/or and playing very few good listed games per year; Real Steel conversion, having kids now, having other hobbies, ect ect. Old blood being replaced with new blood without the proper teaching of old values we used to have and preach back then leads to new players being clueless about the real brotherhood and comradery we had when we, old players, used to live with. Having less veteran players means having less icons for the sport to teach newcomers the basics.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 11:15   #105
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Veteran players with 10+ years in airsoft are getting out of airsoft more and more and/or and playing very few good listed games per year; Real Steel conversion, having kids now, having other hobbies, ect ect. Old blood being replaced with new blood without the proper teaching of old values we used to have and preach back then leads to new players being clueless about the real brotherhood and comradery we had when we, old players, used to live with. Having less veteran players means having less icons for the sport to teach newcomers the basics.
This.
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