Airsoft Canada
http://www.infinityarms.com/

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > ASC News and Announcements
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

Has Honour and Respect in Airsoft Died?

:

ASC News and Announcements

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 16th, 2015, 17:34   #76
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
I don't think that it's younger, though experience and maturity mostly help, but newer is definitely a catalyst. Some players though, such as the guy you describe, are just dickwads. If an entire legion of spec-ops trained, best equipment in the world, furthest shooting guns, armed with thermal imaging and motion capture sights, want to show up and thrash everyone, all the power to them. Always push for people to step up and buck up, never, and I mean never, handicap someone to compensate for laziness, inability, or lack of budget. I understand if you can't afford to play at that level, but that's your problem to solve.

Although skill is definately your go to dynamic for success, there are so many variables in airsoft to hang on skill alone. Each piece can play a part. Things like weapon effectiveness, training, comms, team work, imaging (thermal and night vision), weapons, camo, athleticism, even footwear can have a massive impact. And no matter how good you are, one or more of these dynamics done right can obliterate skill on its own. Some players have all of these tools to wield. Some players only make 'X', but make airsoft a priority and will spend more on their gear, some guys make way more, but cannot condone spending more than $500 total into the sport. But then there's players who'll spend more than $500 on one set of footwear alone. People try and pretend like it doesn't make a difference, but a player who's properly hydrated, gear is weight distributed, gun is better performing and feet are comfortable is tough to conquer with will alone. Now give that guy effective comms and a team of like minded, like geared team mates and the difficulty is exponential. It all plays a part.

One issue I'm noticing is the increasing FPS to accommodate crappy guns, or to create unneeded weapon classes. Also things like temperature swing and joule creep play a huge factor as well. There are fields who have a DMR class of 450 FPS, chrono GBBRs and Polar Stars with a 0.20g round and that's that. So now take one of those platforms, throw in a heavier weight BB, add 20 - 30 FPS throughout the day from temperature swing and joule creep and you've got a ridiculously hot gun. I'm finding this more and more becoming an issue.

FPS and Joule limits must be in stone and the same for everyone, period. No special consideration for any gun types, each player must be 100% responsible for their weapons being within the limits at all times. So if your limit is say 400 with 0.20g, which is about 1.48 joules, then that is that period. Once your gun is chronographed in the morning, it must not be capable of going over that 1.48 joule mark all day, wether it's from joule creep, changing BB weights, or temperature. If your gun suffers from any of these, you have to account for it and have it adjusted pre chrono. If that means your platform needs to be at 300 FPS with a 0.20g for chrono, than so be it.

It drives me crazy when fields have super high FPS classes. In most cases the gun doesn't even shoot much further and still isn't competing with the top tiered guns and upgrades platforms, it just shoots hotter now. So stupid.
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 17:41   #77
lurkingknight
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
So wait a minute here. You blame the retailers for selling 'not the best quality guns' and you preach the upgraded gun? This is what's wrong with players now! They think that when they buy an airsoft gun, whatever brand it is may be, it will outrange and out shoot everyone else's gun! When I first started in the late 90's, we pushed players for being better at the sport before they get an upgraded gun, a hot gun (higher fps, not necessarily 450 fps). We believed in 'Upgrade the Player before Upgrade the gun'.

Whether the new player has a G&G or ICS as you may claim 'SHIT', that player may be also new to the sport and still learning the ropes. I hope you understand the meaning of 'Be an enabler not a disabler'. New players will buy what they can afford in this sport. Let that sink in a bit...
I've had my ass shot off by a 360 fps g&g combat machine rental gun with a highcap. Just because the guy outplayed me, was in a better spot and got the jump on me.

It's not the gun... the gun helps but even a shit player with a great gun can still be a shit player and sit back 30m behind his own line and lob shots at the opposing line 90m away. A good player would be using that extra reach to push people back from their line, not fight to a standstill.
__________________
I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.
lurkingknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 17:48   #78
Cliffradical
butthurt for not having a user title
 
Cliffradical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
I'll add that an experienced player can make a shitty gun work, because they'll adjust their game to the gun's limitations.

So, agreed upon bullet points (ha) that stand out here:

-There is an emergent culture of "Fuck you, got mine" style narcissistic attitude that has always been around, but is gaining numbers with an influx of new players (young, and old)

-There are differences between clubs and regions which are totally okay, but need to be better understood

-There is a marked decline in the population of OG players, exacerbating the two above problems

-These things can largely be mitigated through education and cooperation, but how do we find the ones who [i] want [/] to be educated and get them the attention they need?

-Persuant to that point, what can be done to recycle repentant offenders back into the community so they don't continue to splinter off and cause headaches?
Cliffradical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 17:53   #79
Gato
ASC's Whiny Bitch
 
Gato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Richmond Hill (Ontario)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
So wait a minute here. You blame the retailers for selling 'not the best quality guns' and you preach the upgraded gun? This is what's wrong with players now! They think that when they buy an airsoft gun, whatever brand it is may be, it will outrange and out shoot everyone else's gun! When I first started in the late 90's, we pushed players for being better at the sport before they get an upgraded gun, a hot gun (higher fps, not necessarily 450 fps). We believed in 'Upgrade the Player before Upgrade the gun'.

Whether the new player has a G&G or ICS as you may claim 'SHIT', that player may be also new to the sport and still learning the ropes. I hope you understand the meaning of 'Be an enabler not a disabler'. New players will buy what they can afford in this sport. Let that sink in a bit...

Having been written right before bed, I may have worded it a little differently than intended or it may have been taken a little differently than I meant.

I started in 05, the same thing you were taught when you started was still there. Learn to play before going nuts. The fact remains, that no one sugar coated it to us, running a stock gun against upgraded guns put you at a disadvantage, no one told me that my stock TM P90 and DBoy M4 would put me toe to toe against the upgraded guns, in fact, it was made perfectly clear that I'd notice I was outranged and likely less accurate than them.

Not once did I feel that the users of these guns were "cheating" or using an "unfair advantage" over me, because I was taught to play and not lied to about what I had/was buying.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
Certified Level 3.1415926 Sniper Certified
Certified Level 3.1415926 Orbital Weapons platform Certified
Gato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 20:21   #80
Chiba
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Markham
If a person is skilled, any gun will do. How do you think ppl get kills with shotguns

My theory is that the cheaters/zombies/i'm invincible players typically bring more new players into the game and brag how good they are. The new players then see how they can get away with cheating and continue to do so. This situation then just snowballs.

My other theory is that it's a cultural habit - there are a lot of new players whose cultural attitude ... doesn't always promote honor and respect, just to win. Let's leave that be as I don't want to open a can of worms.

I'm not going to lie - I was at the Sidewalk Sale at Seige last week; I had a look at the players playing that night and I had a gut feeling that at least half the players there were going to be asses that night.

This topic reminds me of the hotpot team at Nightfall this year
Chiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 20:54   #81
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiba View Post
If a person is skilled, any gun will do. How do you think ppl get kills with shotguns

My theory is that the cheaters/zombies/i'm invincible players typically bring more new players into the game and brag how good they are. The new players then see how they can get away with cheating and continue to do so. This situation then just snowballs.

My other theory is that it's a cultural habit - there are a lot of new players whose cultural attitude ... doesn't always promote honor and respect, just to win. Let's leave that be as I don't want to open a can of worms.

I'm not going to lie - I was at the Sidewalk Sale at Seige last week; I had a look at the players playing that night and I had a gut feeling that at least half the players there were going to be asses that night.

This topic reminds me of the hotpot team at Nightfall this year
Cultural? Gut feeling based on looks? Yikes dude!

Anyways, honor starts with the rules of the game, how they are designed, how they are enforced and what they stand for. This just sets the president for everything. Really though it'll come down to player's attitudes. If you have a bad egg, then you have a bad egg. One thing I do agree with us who is setting the exames out there? Is it the shitheads or the honorable players? New players are gonna follow by example at least somewhat. So who is setting the stronger example? Next is how you deal with the bad. How you make examples of players that lack sportsmanship or blatantly cheat will show your tolerance level for that kind of thing. If you don't enforce the rules, cater to bad players and don't hand out swift and fair Justice, you'll have a goat rodeo on your hands. New players and youth are gonna show up to games
matter what, because in most cases they don't know the difference. Who's teaching them?
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 21:08   #82
Cliffradical
butthurt for not having a user title
 
Cliffradical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Winnipeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
Cultural? Gut feeling based on looks? Yikes dude!
Stolen from Wikipedia:

"Culture (/ˈkʌltʃər/) is, in the words of E.B. Tylor, "that complex whole which includes knowledge, belief, art, morals, law, custom and any other capabilities and habits acquired by man as a member of society."[1]

Cambridge English Dictionary states that culture is, "the way of life, especially the general customs and beliefs, of a particular group of people at a particular time."

I think (I hope) he may have been using the word in accordance with the definition and not how it's used colloquially.

We, as a society often equate culture with race; as if culture is an expression of race. It's not. 'Race' is bullshit, and while culture is often attached to our minds by way of our eyes, 'culture' is actually only just a word used to describe the situation when a community has established a shared identity, and then created ways by which they can express it.
There are cultures and subcultures within Airsoft, just as there are in Canada, or the Earth, or Mars.
Cliffradical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 21:22   #83
Chiba
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Markham
[QUOTE=Cliffradical;1959139]
I think (I hope) he may have been using the word in accordance with the definition and not how it's used colloquially.
[\QUOTE]

Yup. I wrote in the context of the definition. Thank you for clarifying

You kinda develop that gut feeling once you've seen a player getting lit up like a Christmas tree, in the middle of a field, in full view of many players, shrug it off, and say nothing hit. The best part was when two BB's hit the player's helmet with a "PING". -- Anyways, I digress.. and I agree I can be wrong
Chiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2015, 22:27   #84
Zack The Ripper
 
Zack The Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Stouffville, ON
Send a message via MSN to Zack The Ripper
There's 10% douchebags anywhere you go. The more people that get into airsoft, the more douchebags. But, on the same token, more bros.

#BroScience
__________________
Guardians of Asgaard

"The judge meeting is arranged for terrorist." - G&P Laser Product

Primary - Z-Custom VFC ZTW
LifeLine - TM Glock G18C
Zack The Ripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 00:13   #85
RainyEyes
 
RainyEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Scar Town
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurkingknight View Post
This thread is a direct result of someone who was shot multiple times in the face from extreme close range during and after the player had called hit and presented no threat. Safety gear being compromised aside (his glassed shifted under the onslaught or reaction and resulted in a shot to the tear duct). The shooter was incompetent or malicious, and it was dangerous play. That close, full body exposure, you choose to shoot for the face and ignore the hit call... THAT should be bannable.
Was this at Siege Airsoft? There was a guy I bumped into at the washrooms there on the first Slaydies night when I was going there myself washing the blood off my face (i don't wear a face mask, just goggles).

The guy comes in after me and has a little bit of blood running from the corner of his left eye.

What happened was that his mesh mask shifted his goggles which moved upwards towards his forehead to provide just enough room to expose his eyes. He was lucky he wasn't blinded.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danke
No, you're going to stop and find someone near you in this subform.

Then you will pay that person to fix it for you.

Then you're not going to let your friends play with anything unless it's made by Fisher Price.
RainyEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 02:35   #86
Gato
ASC's Whiny Bitch
 
Gato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Richmond Hill (Ontario)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyEyes View Post
Was this at Siege Airsoft? There was a guy I bumped into at the washrooms there on the first Slaydies night when I was going there myself washing the blood off my face (i don't wear a face mask, just goggles).

The guy comes in after me and has a little bit of blood running from the corner of his left eye.

What happened was that his mesh mask shifted his goggles which moved upwards towards his forehead to provide just enough room to expose his eyes. He was lucky he wasn't blinded.
Pretty sure it wasn't that night. I think it was last weekend.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus View Post
Like seriously dude. The incredible lack of common sense in the question could be scientifically investigated for evidence of a black hole.
Certified Level 3.1415926 Sniper Certified
Certified Level 3.1415926 Orbital Weapons platform Certified
Gato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 02:42   #87
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
We had one like that. Super extreme close call! This thread is getting a little off topic though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	56.7 KB
ID:	49397  
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 13:03   #88
Aper
E-30
 
Aper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aegiis's Neighbor.
Honor and Respect is still being preached by old-timers like myself who started playing in the early 2000s when the sport wasn't popular, and access to airsoft guns was nearly impossible unless being on ASC and going through Tru. Airsoft was expensive, yet only people having jobs and cars to drive to the few venues we had back then were eligible to play airsoft.

Back then, we had a brotherhood, knew each and every person that was attending a game, and was way more than a simple nametag on a combat shirt or vest. The community was very small, and it was very easy to spot and to ban those newcomer assholes that cheated and acted like douchebags. The control was made very easier than today.

In 2015, with the social medias being the #1 source for everything and airsoft guns being sold virtually everywhere today, making a step in the sport became a lot more easier, as the poll of players expanded a lot throughout the past few years and people don't need ASC anymore to get things started.

New players / Kids don't give a shit about honor and respect anymore, because regardless if they get banned at a field, they'll find another group of players to play at another venue on Facebook.

It's the sad truth, but this is the main reason why you don't see a lot of ''public'' games anymore and more and more hosts tend to make more private games with players they know and trust. I tend to also believe than big scale public games aren't created to give a second breathe to airsoft, but to make more and more money on everyone's back due to the sport's popularity.
__________________

West Coast EOD Supporter. // Bang One, Bang Em All ! // In war, it's not who's right, but who's left.
Aper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 13:15   #89
wintez
formerly known as scrumgay.... err I mean scrumguy. aka Resident Fat Guy of Epic Porportions of the Southern Alberta Area (yes he's that big!). Will pole dance in a pink tutu for loonies. Use to play with balls around many other men for fun.
 
wintez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brooks
I ran a game this year where we had ZERO issues with cheating. Everyone played with honour and respect and even the newer players showed their stuff. However it was a cost of banning an entire team on reputation for cheating and general douchbaggery which I believe may have sent a message to other players in the area that it will not be tolerated.

Since they were banned the team has no folded.

My point is. If you make people realize that it's not just the player, it's the team/group in a whole that could be banned for a few bad apples
__________________
Thundercactus - you guys are just bunch of non tropic wearing dick bags. Get some tropic already!

Wintez - I accidently banned myself from ASC on my first day as an admin, I love the sausage!!

Age Verifier for Southern Alberta
wintez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2015, 14:04   #90
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
I have to disagree a little Aper. I think that there are more and more public games, in some areas becoming the main, or only outlet for airsoft, becoming a problem due to lack of control. I'm sure the old guard is doing more 'invite only' events, but that's not a new thing. Other than that I'm pretty much in full agreement.

Once again though, unless we create some sort of association, that is built very strictly on a simple code, so we can bring in new players directly into teams, groups, or factions, thereby separating out players who want to play organized and honorable, then we'll never stop the rising of the tide. There's a whole whack load of new players out there, some of whom will be outstanding, and will be airsoft's positive future. So the weekend warrior types can go to public events, or whatever they want to do, players who want to step up must first travel through a filter, and then the idiots can be mostly weeded out. It's not perfect, but standing back watching and complaining isn't gonna change it. When was the last time you guys went on a huge recruitment spree for your group and then spent time mentoring?
__________________
WE'RE RECRUITING MORE AGE VERIFIERS FOR MORE REGIONS OF CANADA! INTERESTED? CHECK OUT OUR THREAD HERE!

BC & YUKON MASTER AV REPRESENTITIVE
Ricochet is online now   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > ASC News and Announcements

Bookmarks
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Airsoft Canada
http://www.infinityarms.com/

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 16:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.