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Has Honour and Respect in Airsoft Died?

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Old September 14th, 2015, 23:08   #31
Gunny1980
 
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Damn you keyboard ninjas lol. To clarify, Ricochet, I agree with what your last post was saying lol
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Old September 15th, 2015, 00:12   #32
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Hectic, your not wrong, but how does one implement things at fields they don't own? First off, yes you can absolutely ban a group of a large portion of their players cheat. Obviously you'd try and weed out the guilty, but groups tend to know that they have cheaters. If it's just that one guy, and usually every group has one, then fine, whatever. But teams who allow and tolerate cheating are helping to spread the problem around. We didn't keep cheaters on our team. Not everyone was perfect, but I can't remember any of our members getting in a heap of trouble or giving us a bad name.

Controlling who is playing is very difficult as well when you don't own/run the field. There's the team or group minded and then there's the drop ins/weekend warriors. We had a game last weekend where one group complained it was too slow. When you remove the tactical side though, others complain it's too in orderly. The casual players and some beginners is where the paintball BS is coming from. Non serious players running business fields are spreading that type of airsoft because it attracts more youth and their parents money. Tactical teams shit stomping kids and boots going up asses to assert a hardcore style rules will chase them away. I figure the a see if they don't play together anymore.

I love the idea of walking up to a player wearing a kill rag and asking their name. On the other hand, I've caught myself with my hip-up adjusted too high, or something, just as many times as some idiot not calling their hits, so you have to be careful who, how and when you accuse someone of something.

As far as banding together goes, it may be time to chisel a sculpture out of this ugly rock. It won't have loads of traction right away, but it would in time. If I ran a field, I'd make every registered team have a minimum of four members and each team would have to have a legitimate green camo and a legitimate tan camo. I'd run strictly tan versus green, but any group would be capable of playing either side. I'd have a minimum 200' gun range for primary's and absolutely no high caps or drum mags, etc, except box mags for LMGs. FPS and joule limits would be strict admins or refs would be unmarked and within both teams. Just to start. I'd call it something other than the generic "airsoft", just to make the distinction and there'd be no reinacting, sci-fi or whatever within it. It would focus strictly on team based, tactical and competitive gameplay, and yes, a fuckin' radio and headset would be mandatory. Beyond that, teams and players would be able to customize gear, equipment and play styles within the rules of course. If your just a casual or a "just there for yourself" type player, this isn't for you. Also, no one on the field that can't take full legal responsibility for themselves. Maybe a mentoring program for 16 and 17 year olds or something. Any other forms of airsoft, mentalities or what have you, are welcome to play their own version elsewhere.

Step up or go play your not-paintball.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 00:57   #33
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Controlling who is playing is very difficult as well when you don't own/run the field. There's the team or group minded and then there's the drop ins/weekend warriors. We had a game last weekend where one group complained it was too slow. When you remove the tactical side though, others complain it's too in orderly. The casual players and some beginners is where the paintball BS is coming from. Non serious players running business fields are spreading that type of airsoft because it attracts more youth and their parents money. Tactical teams shit stomping kids and boots going up asses to assert a hardcore style rules will chase them away. I figure the a see if they don't play together anymore.
I think this in turn should be a problem for the field owners then. Employ vigilant referees to alleviate bad players.

I was at Siege one time and there was a fat prick who I had literally shot and hit about 10 feet away, have then turn around, see me, run around the corner, and then shoot me 5 seconds later. Like, really?
MFW:


And then there was a time where I'm hit and heading back to spawn with my back turned, I have my gun in my hand on the handguard held up high in the air, and still have people taking pot shots at my back.... centre mass, so it definitely wasn't a ricochet or accidental shot. I know it was center because I wear nothing when I play. Words were spoken.

Speaking with the ref was mostly just to vent anger since most of my mood was already ruined by unethical players in that one game. By the time it's over, I already want to leave the place. In my mind, I think, "they're not worth the trouble". So in part, both players and ref have a job to report disorderly conduct and to stop the players from cheating. I was THIS close to going full auto on that fat prick.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 01:01   #34
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The thing with enforcement is, as it's always been, down to host to communicate with each other and keep track of who is cheating and such. This forum would offer a great place to keep a list (i thought there was talk of something like this before by ColinS I wanna say but it escapes me ATM) of those who have been caught blatantly cheating have been warned and subsequently cheated again and have been ejected from a field. It is then on other hosts to decide if they will give them a chance or not. (Personally at a field I was a part of we had a large group of "cheaters" who had problems at other fields, we gave them the benighted of the doubt, had a minor issue and after a sit down things were sorted and they returned many times before the field closed and are active members of the community and I have no problems with them when I see them on the field. (As a sniper most of the time I'm the most likely to shoot and hit but not get a call lol)
In the end it comes down to the facts that what was once expensive and basically a black market is now mainstream with that we get a large influx of players, more players more ass hats, such is life, big city more crime blah blah.
With such a large influx and then so many fields and hosts it becomes hard to self police as was done long before I came around and found this ready built community full of awesome, helpful (tho sometimes elitist), and all round stand up folks to hang out with and sling plastic on the weekends. Cheaters (few and far between back then) we given a chance it became a problem and they became guys with likely a minimum $1000 investment that'll sit in a closet and collect dust.
These days they just move on to the next field on the other side of town in different camo and no one is the wiser. I personally have the plans of taking first and last names and ASC name of anyone who I have to talk to for cheating seccond warning is a ban for 1 year from my games and then if you want to come back we can meet up at a game and see how that goes before proceeding. Any further cheating (obviously it would have to be blatant and witnessed by a third party hopefully) and I don't have time for that shit you can play in your basement lol.
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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Old September 15th, 2015, 01:05   #35
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I was wrong it was not Colin.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthr...light=Cheaters
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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Old September 15th, 2015, 03:27   #36
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All part and parcel of a hobby that revolves around people, if you let the BS get to you then it can eat you up. I just play to have a good time and if someone is hell bent on ruining the fun for everyone then it's off to speak to game control. No yelling, no alpha male dick waving shit, just continue to play the game and enjoy spending time with the other (and needs to be said majority) players like me on the field. Life's to short to harp on someone who shot me a few more times even though I already called myself out, I'm sure I've done that to someone else because I honestly didn't know they were out.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 08:45   #37
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Originally Posted by RainyEyes View Post
I think this in turn should be a problem for the field owners then. Employ vigilant referees to alleviate bad players.

I was at Siege one time and there was a fat prick who I had literally shot and hit about 10 feet away, have then turn around, see me, run around the corner, and then shoot me 5 seconds later. Like, really?
MFW:


And then there was a time where I'm hit and heading back to spawn with my back turned, I have my gun in my hand on the handguard held up high in the air, and still have people taking pot shots at my back.... centre mass, so it definitely wasn't a ricochet or accidental shot. I know it was center because I wear nothing when I play. Words were spoken.

Speaking with the ref was mostly just to vent anger since most of my mood was already ruined by unethical players in that one game. By the time it's over, I already want to leave the place. In my mind, I think, "they're not worth the trouble". So in part, both players and ref have a job to report disorderly conduct and to stop the players from cheating. I was THIS close to going full auto on that fat prick.
Okay I'm just going to say this, I've seen more random Bullshit at Siege than any other field I've ever been at. I'm Sorry when the Ref sits in his little tower on his cell texting the whole game and does F*&*) All to ensure players calling hits and keeping everything in check!! (at least that I've seen when I have been there)
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Old September 15th, 2015, 09:43   #38
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I agree and fully support that honour and respect are key in this sport, hell, its one of the many reasons I started into airsoft in the first place lol. It is the duty of all players veteran and otherwise to educate and remind new comers to airsoft that this will make or break you here. We all have our own reasons and our preferred level and style of play here, I respect that and if it makes you enjoy yourself doing it by all means have at it, but if you can't grasp the importance of the very core values of what the sport is all about (honour and respect) then this isn't for you. Open communication I find is key in helping other players along. Whether they take your advice or not is up to them. At the end of the day, respect others and yourself and honour the game, I don't think it's too much to ask.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 11:04   #39
Dracheous
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I'm not liking a lot of posts here to be quite honest.

Many have brought up suggestions that field owners don't do enough, community members are not being aggressive enough in weeding out bad sports, several have suggested that age has something to do with this. And I believe you're all wrong.


The issue comes down to one word: commitment. And that word is not affected by age, colour, religion, political mumbo jumbo, or even the brand of the airsoft gun.

This sport requires commitment from ALL parties. There are no classes or divisions of power in this sport. Yes you have people who pay more attention to kit details and build a super cereal COD kit. Yes you have people who are a little too poor for this and focus on kit that makes them effective. And yes you have people who don't care about their effectiveness they just wanna run out there and get gunned down in a blazing blast of glory and aw!

Shit one of the best things I ever watched was this scrawny lil Asian kid ((who always played up the Asian stereotype himself and laughed about it)) strip off all his gear and went running through the forest screaming like a banshee in sandals! Because: "that's what the bad guys do in jungles." He committed to having fun and in the process we ALL got the joy of watching him get gunned down; while he effectively made the enemy poop their COD drawers and gave us the edge to flank and destroy em.



At all levels the game requires commitment to obey the rules, and play hard. And this is why I always saw the crash in prices as a critical issue for the sport. The fix will not be jacking prices up ((Looking at you 007 :P )), but the realization that additional commitment will be needed from ALL players to get to know the massive influx of new people. It's not as simple as "well he didn't call his hits 3 times today! BAN HIM BAN HIM BAN HIM!" Because everyone wanted prices to drop for the sport to "grow". Well now its time for everyone to grow and take the time to meet and greet every damn new person you see at a field.

COD guys and weekend gun runners and those people that play pretend militia on non game weekends can very easily mix at these games. The reason they don't is not because "well you've too much money because you spent $1000 on a REAL Eagle while I had to afford a $200 Phantom" **insert nerd noises here**. It's because people group off with the people they know. And you always see the same groups isolating themselves off and then this isolation festers all that negativity of he said she said, "its them!"


You find a way to get rid of the isolation of all players through out the sport, young, old, new, experienced, and dumb ass a like can all come back to what is essential of this sport. Commitment.



We just have to accept that there is no longer an entry barrier that set a bar of the commitment required for the sport to be prosperous anymore. And now its on EVERYONE, not just during the game either to keep everyone involved.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 11:34   #40
Kokanee
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I'm sort of at a loss; is this a bitching thread to make people feel better about doing nothing or a thread about actual change and measures taken?

I know if there was a team in Edmonton who had a policy requiring new players to get x amount of headshots before they were made part of the team; there wouldn't be passive-aggressive posts made on a forum, they simply wouldn't be able to play anywhere in Edmonton, full stop.

If there is a lack of organization which makes this impossible, then take the winter and organize the players in your area into a club or player's association so that it IS possible to ban problem players etc.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 11:38   #41
Ricochet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracheous View Post
I'm not liking a lot of posts here to be quite honest.

Many have brought up suggestions that field owners don't do enough, community members are not being aggressive enough in weeding out bad sports, several have suggested that age has something to do with this. And I believe you're all wrong.


The issue comes down to one word: commitment. And that word is not affected by age, colour, religion, political mumbo jumbo, or even the brand of the airsoft gun.

This sport requires commitment from ALL parties. There are no classes or divisions of power in this sport. Yes you have people who pay more attention to kit details and build a super cereal COD kit. Yes you have people who are a little too poor for this and focus on kit that makes them effective. And yes you have people who don't care about their effectiveness they just wanna run out there and get gunned down in a blazing blast of glory and aw!

Shit one of the best things I ever watched was this scrawny lil Asian kid ((who always played up the Asian stereotype himself and laughed about it)) strip off all his gear and went running through the forest screaming like a banshee in sandals! Because: "that's what the bad guys do in jungles." He committed to having fun and in the process we ALL got the joy of watching him get gunned down; while he effectively made the enemy poop their COD drawers and gave us the edge to flank and destroy em.



At all levels the game requires commitment to obey the rules, and play hard. And this is why I always saw the crash in prices as a critical issue for the sport. The fix will not be jacking prices up ((Looking at you 007 :P )), but the realization that additional commitment will be needed from ALL players to get to know the massive influx of new people. It's not as simple as "well he didn't call his hits 3 times today! BAN HIM BAN HIM BAN HIM!" Because everyone wanted prices to drop for the sport to "grow". Well now its time for everyone to grow and take the time to meet and greet every damn new person you see at a field.

COD guys and weekend gun runners and those people that play pretend militia on non game weekends can very easily mix at these games. The reason they don't is not because "well you've too much money because you spent $1000 on a REAL Eagle while I had to afford a $200 Phantom" **insert nerd noises here**. It's because people group off with the people they know. And you always see the same groups isolating themselves off and then this isolation festers all that negativity of he said she said, "its them!"


You find a way to get rid of the isolation of all players through out the sport, young, old, new, experienced, and dumb ass a like can all come back to what is essential of this sport. Commitment.



We just have to accept that there is no longer an entry barrier that set a bar of the commitment required for the sport to be prosperous anymore. And now its on EVERYONE, not just during the game either to keep everyone involved.
Commitment to what exactly? Growing the sport? Enforcement of the rules? Making money? Investing in proper gear? Mentoring the next generation? Playing as a team? Maybe following the goddam rules? Of course everyone needs commitment, but saying everyone needs commitment is like saying everyone needs a pulse to play. Of course they do. Basically your post says; "if everyone did what they were supposed to, they could all just get their blue ribbon and go home.".

Also, apprently airsoft to you is naked Asians running through the forest getting shot at, because it may have happened in Vietnam? Or am I reading that incorrectly?

As someone who has played airsoft avidly for a decade, I can tell you that all of these things mentioned in this thread have always existed. It's just now that they are far more rampant. I know many experienced, long time players have just straight up quit in the last two years, vowing never to return. I guess if you're gonna complain you should do something about it. But like any sport, there comes a time when leagues and the like are formed to take it further and cut out the BS. This would be an incredible undertaking of course.

I'm telling you, having entry requirements and strict rule enforcement LIKE ANY F'ING SPORT ANYWHERE, EVER, will mostly fix these issues. That way those who wish to focus strictly on the competitive side can build something and those who want to just run around like a naked Asians can do their thing, just completely separately. But only if you all have commitment...
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Old September 15th, 2015, 11:44   #42
Ricochet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokanee View Post
I'm sort of at a loss; is this a bitching thread to make people feel better about doing nothing or a thread about actual change and measures taken?

I know if there was a team in Edmonton who had a policy requiring new players to get x amount of headshots before they were made part of the team; there wouldn't be passive-aggressive posts made on a forum, they simply wouldn't be able to play anywhere in Edmonton, full stop.

If there is a lack of organization which makes this impossible, then take the winter and organize the players in your area into a club or player's association so that it IS possible to ban problem players etc.
I agree with this. One issue we've found though, is that many players won't join or stay with an organized group because then they can't do what they want. Or that many organized groups get too convoluted because everyone has to have their way. Also, some of these groups don't get along with other groups. Alberta I found mostly had a great dynamic, but here in BC it's more complicated and people are resistant to order.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 12:28   #43
wintez
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When I started playing the sport. I was told.."give the guy a chance to move if all you have is his head" like a 5 second rule. If you have the drop on a guy....there is absolutely no need to shoot for the head. They will move and you can catch them in the open.

The problem with younger players these days is a sense of entitlement. They want everything and now. Including respect. I'm sorry to say but the kids these days will not get respect from me until they show some to me. Respect as we all know is earn. But we have to many COD gamers on the fields that are more worried about their K/D ratio to give a rats ass about the game being actually played.

I was at a game last year. I was shot and had my kill rag ON MY HEAD. Talking to one of my buddies who was admin at the time. Not even in the engagement area. BRAAAPPP full auto to the back of my head......ok...i'll give you one. Turned around thinking he couldn't see my kill rag. Weapon is down - non threatening target. I'm fully exposed and standing in the open talking to an Admin. Turn around to talk to him again....same thing...BRAAAPPPPP again in the back of the head. Continued to call HIT!!! At this point I was getting steamed. Turned around again to get another volley in the back of the head. At this point I was was seeing red. So I walked over with the admin and talked to a 18 y/o kid with a juiced up AK and a Hi Cap. I asked him what the hell he was doing. He said " I was shooting you. Call your hits douche". I asked him if he knew what was on my head. He said "a bandana" . I lost it. This kid was playing pretty well geared up and didn't even know what a kill rag was. I was pretty fumed. Told the kid. It means i'm dead. You've been shooting a dead player. Who are you here with? Answer was " my buddy is around here somewhere" How long have you been playing I asked. He said " 2 years man, What's your problem?" I left at that point.

Just goes to show that the newer generation of players in most parts are not being taught the rules of the games from the older players. That one little incident ruined my whole day. So I'm at a point where I'm at a cross roads. Do I teach or leave them behind?

Thoughts?
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Old September 15th, 2015, 12:51   #44
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So for some of this it sounds like a pregame briefing aide-memoire would extinguish grass fires before they're forest fires.

Let's get some game hosts chiming in with a brief bullet point spread of what they tell all players new and old and let's lock down a guide to use at all games across the country.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 12:58   #45
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I was at a game last year. I was shot and had my kill rag ON MY HEAD. Talking to one of my buddies who was admin at the time. Not even in the engagement area. BRAAAPPP full auto to the back of my head......ok...i'll give you one. Turned around thinking he couldn't see my kill rag. Weapon is down - non threatening target. I'm fully exposed and standing in the open talking to an Admin. Turn around to talk to him again....same thing...BRAAAPPPPP again in the back of the head. Continued to call HIT!!! At this point I was getting steamed. Turned around again to get another volley in the back of the head. At this point I was was seeing red. So I walked over with the admin and talked to a 18 y/o kid with a juiced up AK and a Hi Cap. I asked him what the hell he was doing. He said " I was shooting you. Call your hits douche". I asked him if he knew what was on my head. He said "a bandana" . I lost it. This kid was playing pretty well geared up and didn't even know what a kill rag was. I was pretty fumed. Told the kid. It means i'm dead. You've been shooting a dead player. Who are you here with? Answer was " my buddy is around here somewhere" How long have you been playing I asked. He said " 2 years man, What's your problem?" I left at that point.

Just goes to show that the newer generation of players in most parts are not being taught the rules of the games from the older players. That one little incident ruined my whole day. So I'm at a point where I'm at a cross roads. Do I teach or leave them behind?

Thoughts?
I'm not sure if this is a case where they play stupid and feign ignorance or they are genuinely stupid.

I don't think it's the job of the players to teach other players about the rules. Each field has their own set of rules and how they deal with body hits, gun hits, etc. The staff there are literally paid to instruct and moderate the game. The reason why that person wasn't informed and kept shooting is beyond me.

I'm wondering if refs should just walk around IN the field where the action is while wearing an EOD suit to ensure people are following the rules instead of watching on the side.
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