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velocity and energy limits for canada

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Old October 26th, 2005, 23:49   #1
mcguyver
 
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velocity and energy limits for canada

i was just doing some rough calculations after digging up a physics book from university about 15 years ago. i know that the firearms limits for airguns (airsoft included?) is 500 fps and 5.7 joules of muzzle energy. these were the numbers i came up with:

0.12g @ 715.1 fps = 5.7j
0.20g @ 553.8 fps = 5.7j
0.25g @ 495.4 fps = 5.7j
0.36g @ 412.8 fps = 5.7j
0.43g @ 377.7 fps = 5.7j

if there are some university guys out there that could check my numbers that would be appreciated. just thought i'd spend a little time procrastinating from doing my paperwork.

i just ran the velocity calculator at arnie's airsoft and these were their numbers:

0.12g @ 1014 fps = 5.7j
0.20g @ 785.5 fps = 5.7j
0.25g @ 702.5 fps = 5.7j
0.36g @ 585.5 fps = 5.7j
0.43g @ 535.5 fps = 5.7j

i trust arnie's number over mine as computers are never wrong. i haven't had to do that calculation in years but these computers make things so easy now. interesting how with heavier bb's the limit seems to be reached much more easily.
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Old October 26th, 2005, 23:55   #2
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Quote:
0.20g @ 553.8 fps = 5.7J
Ouch, are you sure? That means the guys with the KJ Rifles are shooting with what is legally a firearm that is required to be registered? :smack:

Still does not makes sense.. 328 with 0.2 g BB is equal to one Joule, yet 553.8 is 5.7?
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:06   #3
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i just used the calculation of 1j = kg x (m/s)^2 and converted to fps. that's why i was hoping some guy with really good math would verify my numbers and see if i'm right or just full of shit.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:17   #4
Santa
 
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AS far ad I remember it is OR. not AND.
that means if your gun shoots more than 500fps - it's a firearm
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:19   #5
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Your equation is wrong. Add 0.5 in front of your kg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa
AS far ad I remember it is OR. not AND.
that means if your gun shoots more than 500fps - it's a firearm
Wrong. And/or.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for-r.../airguns_e.asp

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). The “muzzle velocity” is the speed of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, normally expressed in metres per second or feet per second. The “muzzle energy” is the energy of a projectile at the instant it leaves the muzzle of a gun, expressed in joules or foot-pounds. Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:22   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa
AS far ad I remember it is OR. not AND.
that means if your gun shoots more than 500fps - it's a firearm
Nope, it's 'and'.

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Originally Posted by W.K.Shuridys
Fact sheets are not legislation, and the legislation says 'and'.

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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kedirkin
Fact sheets are not legislation, and the legislation says 'and'.
Then let's see it.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:24   #8
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To Be Required to register.. and
Quote:
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds).
Quote:
Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act.

Under 500 FPS and/or 5.7 J are still firearms, but not required to register..
Quote:
These are air guns with a maximum muzzle velocity of 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second and/or a maximum muzzle energy of 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot pounds.
Quote:
Such air guns are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate. However, they are considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such an air gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.

If they would just remove the words 'low muzzle velocity' from this... we're all screwed :tup:
Quote:
These are air guns that are not powerful enough to cause serious injury or death, but that were designed to resemble a real firearm with near precision. Replica firearms, except for replicas of antique firearms, are classified as prohibited devices.

In particular, some air guns that are commonly called air soft guns may fall into this category. These are devices that have a low muzzle velocity and muzzle energy, and that usually discharge projectiles made out of a substance such as plastic or wax rather than metal or lead.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:25   #9
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i checked the cfc website and it is both velocity and energy for airguns. so where did i miss the .5? if its .5joules = kg x (m/s)^2 then my numbers will be half the actual. if it's joules = .5 kg x (m/s)^2 then my numbers are double (not likely). could you type me out your formula as the one in my 1990 u of a text says joules = kg x (m/s)^2 and i'm too old to remember from that long ago. thanx.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:32   #10
Brian McIlmoyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguyver
i checked the cfc website and it is both velocity and energy for airguns. so where did i miss the .5? if its .5joules = kg x (m/s)^2 then my numbers will be half the actual. if it's joules = .5 kg x (m/s)^2 then my numbers are double (not likely). could you type me out your formula as the one in my 1990 u of a text says joules = kg x (m/s)^2 and i'm too old to remember from that long ago. thanx.
Kinetic energy=1/2mass X velocity squared

remember.. that the bbs are .something of a gram

.20= .0002kg yes?
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:34   #11
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using my velocity calculator, I have 784 fps with 0.20g for a total of 5,698 joules.

450 fps with 0.20g = 1,877 joules
400 fps with 0.20g = 1,484 joules
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:37   #12
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Aiee! Math and law make W.K.Shuridys head hurt.

I stole the equation from the link to Arnie's above. I did it manually and it seems to work, though math was never my strong point. I'd think if the calculator was faulty someone on Arnie's would've pointed it out by now.

I think the Joule/velocity consensus is the projectile must meet 500 fps AND 5.7J to be classified as registerable firearm.
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:40   #13
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i thought that in an age of adjustable velocities for some guns, it was an intriguing thought and it's still keeping me from my paperwork (YES!!!).
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:50   #14
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It's definitely a valid concern! However given the pressures that typical airsoft propellants work at it seems we're not capable of achieving firearm velocities without significant modification. The KJW M700 for instance can have the magazine drilled and tapped to accept a constant air system, which I'm told can go stupid fast. I've read reports of guys in the Phillipines shooting at 900+ fps (inanimate targets only of course!).
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Old October 27th, 2005, 00:54   #15
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ive heard rumors of guys shooting 500++ with .43g bb's with that new m700. has anyone actually acheived those numbers with field chrony's or just on "the test bench". all i can say is OUCH!!!
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