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SUPREME COURT OF CANADA RULES. Is this is new news and how this affects us?

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Old November 21st, 2014, 11:33   #151
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What happened in 2012 you ask? IIRC, a guy whos username is Saint successfully submitted a Masters thesis and defended it in front of a panel of mentors, and his supervisor who probably grilled him about other random topics in his field then at the end said "OK he can have a masters". Then he released his findings for everyone's benefit.

EDIT: Correction, the above happened in 2009 and it wasn't a traditional defense, more like a thesis submission and granting of a masters. Also by 2012 stuff was clarified and it was smooth sailing.

Let me ask you this then, what about RAP4 markers? Why don't you go on a paintball forum and tell them this too?

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Old November 21st, 2014, 13:41   #152
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No assumption, but as an age verified member you have access to all forums and information on ASC, minus administrative. What you will see and read can open your eyes to a fat history of airsoft within Canada, not to mention some very interesting goings on, access to the classifieds, etc. It may not convince someone like yourself that this sport and all its parts are legitimate in the eyes of the law, but you'll definately see that no one in the know is concerned. We have more stupid shit to argue about...

I will say this. Many years ago I wanted clarification on exactly how airsoft was deemed legal in Canada, after all the crud happened, because I'm a law abiding citizen. Also we were looking for a way to import PTWs without hassle, and were trying to find a legal avenue. I contacted the RCMP because they preside over firearms within Canada, and in turn they put me in touch with the Canadian Firearms Program. The gentleman I spoke with was in fact one of the people who worked on airsoft classification for legal ownership and use in Canada; I wish I could remember his name. Anyways, he explained things to me much as they have been explained to you on here.

Here's how you should see this all. Airsoft becomes popular and starts to show up in Canada, but after some concern a bunch of retailers get busted and the clamp comes down. After years of fighting, including by some members of ASC, things are passed in order to legalize airsoft for personal use. Within the current legislation airsoft is basically exempted if they can cause bodily harm, effectively not making them a replica, and that they don't exceed 500 FPS and 5.7 joules, effectively making them a firearm. It did state that air guns, airsoft guns, paintball, etc, that fit between these two boundaries would be exempt for being classified as firearms for the purposes of the firearms act and parts of the criminal code. So, in order for you to technically have a magazine restriction, your gun would need to shoot over 740-ish feet per second with a 0.20g round, which is stupid as it still uses the same rounds and magazines that any other airsoft guns would likely use. So what's the big difference other than legal classification? Well for starters, no one, including our government, gives a shit as to how many 6mm styrene BBs you can put inside of your toy magazines. The bottom line here is, if you commit a criminal offense, it doesn't really matter what your gun shoots, you will get charged as if the gun is a firearm period, and that has never changed. So this Supreme Court ruling doesn't change anything for us, why? Because not only were we already in the same boat already, but the whole court case was for the intent of the criminal code, period. It may have been poorly or open endedly worded, but they aren't after us, they are after criminals commiting crime. So they conducted a test, that they have conducted before, pre FPS rules were 407 then 366, and found serious bodily harm, with the device in question could occur at 214 FPS. Which makes that device a firearm for that purpose of the criminal code. But forget all that, if you don't believe me, wait until the dust settles and then go down to Canadian Tire and buy a pellet gun shooting 490 FPS without a PAL and see what happens. I'll bet nothing.
You will definately be able to find wording and interpretation that can lend voice to your argument, as the Canadian firearms legislation is a mess, and continues to receive band aids instead of clarification and modernization. The truth is, because of the way the government has very clearly interpreted it and amended things in our favor on purpose, this WILL be our legal shield, as it was designed to be. The only ones that cannot use it, criminals.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 14:38   #153
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AV stands for age verified so yes that's the underlying assumption. Unless proven otherwise members are assumed to be under 18 and are to their own devices when dealing with airsoft in this community that is not already available to the public.

It is irrelevant whether it is true or not that the sky is falling, but hhe facts that demonstrate that it is not true that are relevant. You have demonstrated again and again your misunderstanding and fallacious arguments that the sky is falling when it is in fact not.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 15:14   #154
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Below snipped from the CGN thread (where Cam continues to insist we're all committing a crime by airsofting, and our mags are prohibited).

I'll take the word of the Chief Firearms Officer and those in the know here. Thanks

Quote:
Hi all,

I have been in contact with the CFO's office (Sgt Niedermaier) and the official stance from the CFO's office is that business is as usual and nothing is changing with respect to how they are handling medium powered airguns. Nothing has changed between before the ruling and after the ruling in enforcement. They view the ruling as a clarification only.

Sgt Niedermaier told me that he had been ganked by calls and emails about this issue - and after consultation with the legal department, the stance is that nothing has changed. There are no new laws - and according to the Sgt, the only thing the decision has done is clearly and unequivocally defined that medium powered airguns are potentially very dangerous and that they should be treated with respect. They should be handled, stored, transported, displayed and used responsibly.

Smart people already treat their airguns (no matter how powerful) as NR or R firearms. It only makes sense.

The CFO will not be breaking down your door if you own Crosmans or Daisys and they will not be camped outside the local Canadian Tire waiting for the next kid to buy a bb or pellet gun. If you are an idiot and wave your pellet or BB gun around like a maniac, the local constabulary WILL throw the book at you. Translation: Don't be an idiot.

The Sgt was very kind to call me back yesterday considering how busy he was. EVERYONE from the Anglers and Hunters to the NFA were jumping up and down his spine ready to torch him - no matter what answer he gave. According to him, the legal department told him the logistical, political, financial and popular nightmare full enforcement would cause wasn't worth the crazy.

So, in summary: According to the CFO's Office the Dunn ruling is a clarification - nothing more. Nothing has nor will change in the way Medium Powered Airguns have or will be treated.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 15:24   #155
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Straight from the horses mouth, from the RCMP website. I decided to email them and ask what they make of it, there's the response from cfp-pcaf@rcmp-grc.gc.ca:

"Thank you for your inquiry.

Attached, for your information, is the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) fact sheet titled Air Guns, as well as Replica Firearms, also available on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) web site at www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/index-eng.htm.

Please note that there is no to airsoft guns. Airsoft guns firing a projectile at a muzzle velocity of less than 152.4 meters (500 feet) per second or at a muzzle energy below 5.7 joules (4.2 foot pounds) are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate.

Airsoft guns are, however, considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such a paintball gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.

Additionally, some municipal by-laws prohibit the use of Airsoft guns in certain areas, or without the approval of the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO). It is important to check with the municipal authorities or the CFO of your jurisdiction. You can contact the CFO of your jurisdiction by phoning the RCMP CFP toll-free information line at 1-800-731-4000."
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Old November 21st, 2014, 15:56   #156
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So are you ditching all your airsoft guns in the store Spike?
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Old November 21st, 2014, 20:39   #157
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So are you saying the sky still isn't falling? I could've sworn it looked a little lower today. Not because of the whole airgun/firearm thing, that's just stupid. Anyways, it's good to know that there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 21:13   #158
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Thank you for all the primary resource research. I don't know I hadn't done that sooner. Now everyone can just stfu about it.

@cameron ss: get #rekt
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Old November 24th, 2014, 15:40   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike View Post
Straight from the horses mouth, from the RCMP website. I decided to email them and ask what they make of it, there's the response from cfp-pcaf@rcmp-grc.gc.ca:

"Thank you for your inquiry.

Attached, for your information, is the Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) fact sheet titled Air Guns, as well as Replica Firearms, also available on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) web site at www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/index-eng.htm.

Please note that there is no to airsoft guns. Airsoft guns firing a projectile at a muzzle velocity of less than 152.4 meters (500 feet) per second or at a muzzle energy below 5.7 joules (4.2 foot pounds) are exempt from licensing, registration, and other requirements under the Firearms Act, and from penalties set out in the Criminal Code for possessing a firearm without a valid licence or registration certificate.

Airsoft guns are, however, considered to be firearms under the Criminal Code if they are used to commit a crime. Anyone who uses such a paintball gun to commit a crime faces the same penalties as someone who uses a regular firearm.

Additionally, some municipal by-laws prohibit the use of Airsoft guns in certain areas, or without the approval of the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO). It is important to check with the municipal authorities or the CFO of your jurisdiction. You can contact the CFO of your jurisdiction by phoning the RCMP CFP toll-free information line at 1-800-731-4000."
So tell me again how pointing a firearm at someone is not a crime.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 15:55   #160
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Tell me how pointing a paintball marker isn't either.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 16:03   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron SS View Post
So tell me again how pointing a firearm at someone is not a crime.
Crime requires intent or in some cases negligence. Pointing an airsoft gun at someone in a game demonstrates neither.

Point an airsoft gun at someone while robbing a store, you now demonstrate intent. Point an airsoft gun at someone randomly on the street, and technically you could be charged, as you've demonstrated negligence.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 16:13   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron SS View Post
So tell me again how pointing a firearm at someone is not a crime.
You are the only one insinuating that it's a criminal offence to participate in an airsoft game.

We've now had it direct from the CFO and the RCMP. If this "clarification" (remember, no new laws here) was meant to make airsoft totally illegal, don't you think it would have been easier for them to just say that?
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Old November 24th, 2014, 16:14   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron SS View Post
So tell me again how pointing a firearm at someone is not a crime.
We don't have to; it is a crime. It was a crime before the ruling, and after. What's your point?

If you're implying an air gun is a firearm being pointed at someone is a crime, I'll repeat what i've said before: you lack common sense and understanding of context. An air gun pointed at someone is not considered a firearm unless it is used in the commission of a crime.

That being said, the non sequitur of pointing an airgun at someone constituting a crime does not follow because the air gun was not considered a firearm until after the fact, and before the fact, it is not considered a firearm. You have made an ass out of yourself by implying that air guns under all circumstances are firearms and assuming that this would constitute a criminal act.

inb4#rekt

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Old November 24th, 2014, 16:20   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron SS View Post
Hi Guys, I am new to the forum. I am a firearms enthusiast, and an active user over on a popular firearms forum. This issue is being much discussed there, and I wanted to come here to see specifically if, how, and what the Airsoft community was doing in reaction to this very significant ruling.

I am not a troll
I swear, but I do have a legal background that tells me that this court ruling is going to significantly impact the Airsoft and Paintball sports unless it is addressed by legislation from Parliament.
Can you cut to your end game? What do you want from us?

You said you're not a troll and you came here to see our reaction. You've seen it 10 ways, all the same. Nothing has changed.

But for some some reason you can't understand the replies. You're getting frustrated because no one is agreeing with your vague and veiled posts.

So what's the deal? Some new group we should send membership fees to who will "fight for airsoft"? Some existing group?

Cards on the table time I think.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 16:35   #165
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I think he wants us to bow to his unassailable reasoning that all air guns are now considered firearms in all legal senses of the word, start storing them in locked gun cabinets with gas/bbs/mags/batteries in a separate locked container, trigger locks on all guns, all mags pinned to 5 rounds (if rifle) or 10 (if pistol).

Probably PALs for the rifles, RPALs for the pistols and black guns, and the prohibs turned into the nearest police station for destruction.

Anything else?
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