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Old October 26th, 2013, 11:00   #31
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A spokeswoman for the boy's school described him as "a very loved student, a very popular, very handsome young man, very smart and capable".

Indeed, that was a very smart move.....
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Old October 26th, 2013, 11:31   #32
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I'm sure the officer feels like a big bag of shit right now, but going on the information he had at the time he made the correct judgement call.
I bet he does, but I am sure his wife and children would feel like a big bag of shit now had the threat been real and the officer killed.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 12:11   #33
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I love how people try to shift blame here: the root cause of this was the kid was walking around with what looked like an AK: did that make him a bad person, did he deserve to die for doing that? No, but from that point on he was exposing himself to the potential for something like this to happen, just like a kid walking up to a grizzly cuz he wants to play with the nice cuddly bear is exposing himself to the risk of a mauling.

As for second chances, moments before the cop pulled up another driver had stopped to warn the kid to put the gun away. If he'd heeded that warning he might still be alive.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 12:22   #34
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Just popping in. Quite the shit slinger in here.

No clue of what details are right and which are wrong as each news outlet plays their own melody, so I'll keep my comments to myself as really, none of us have a clue what happened aside from that officer and the child.

Tragedy is tragedy, lets leave it as such.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 12:44   #35
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Police Shoot And Kill Andy Lopez March, 13-Year-Old Boy Carrying Fake Rifle - YouTube

dropping this here
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Old October 26th, 2013, 15:29   #36
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Originally Posted by redzaku View Post
buddy, do you understand what was each police officers was taught? they were taught to use deadly force, for fear of personal safety and public safety.
if you go around carrying an airsoft AK, even though it may be a toy to you, in eyes of the law enforcement, its a firearm and they can't risk it. so they tell you to drop it and if you don't comply, you are getting shot for failing to do so
I totally understand. But 13 y.o. doesn't. He is basically just a kid, who still plays with little cars. For him it is all just a game, he doesn't understand how perilous it is. Just doesn't. Period. He is not old enough.
Common, guys some of us have kids too. You know what I am talking about. So, what if it was 8 year old? 5 year old? Would they shoot him dead too?
Police officers are trained to shoot in the center of mass... Now wait just a second. Are they some sort of robots, machines? Don't they have brains? They have families too, and kids. Anyone can be in the place of that kid. What of it was a toy gun from toysrus?
How easy it is for a trained police officer to disarm 13 yo without just shooting him right away. If it is not easy he should not be a police officer on the first place.

Last edited by volteco; October 26th, 2013 at 15:35..
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Old October 26th, 2013, 15:36   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volteco View Post
I totally understand. But 13 y.o. doesn't. He is basically just a kid, who still plays with little cars. For him it is all just a game, he doesn't understand how perilous it is. Just doesn't. Period. He is not old enough.
Common, guys some of us have kids too. So, what if it was 8 year old? 5 year old? Would they shoot him dead too?
Police officers are trained to shoot in the center of mass... Now wait just a second. Are they some sort of robots, machines? Don't they have brains? They have families too, and kids. Anyone can be in the place of that kid. What of it was a toy gun from toysrus?
How easy it is for a trained police officer to disarm 13 yo without just shooting him right away. If it is not easy he should not be a police officer on the first place.
What if that was a real gun? Do you think you can disarm a 13 year old with a gun? Bullets travel much faster than you do. And it is protocol (as per my use of force professor [who is ex-ETF]) to draw your firearm when another deadly weapon is present. I trust that he knows what he's talking about. Also, at the age of 13, most kids without a mental disability. or even WITH a mental disability know right from wrong, and furthermore their parents should also know NOT to let their kid outside with a gun, real or fake. Not to mention the child was already asked by a concerned bystander to put it away cause he'll get in trouble. SO. The onus is on the kid, not the officer.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 15:42   #38
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Originally Posted by volteco View Post
I totally understand. But 13 y.o. doesn't. He is basically just a kid, who still plays with little cars. For him it is all just a game, he doesn't understand how perilous it is. Just doesn't. Period. He is not old enough.
Common, guys some of us have kids too. You know what I am talking about. So, what if it was 8 year old? 5 year old? Would they shoot him dead too?
Police officers are trained to shoot in the center of mass... Now wait just a second. Are they some sort of robots, machines? Don't they have brains? They have families too, and kids. Anyone can be in the place of that kid. What of it was a toy gun from toysrus?
How easy it is for a trained police officer to disarm 13 yo without just shooting him right away. If it is not easy he should not be a police officer on the first place.
I disagree.

My 10 and 5 year olds have respect for both firearms and the Police - because I taught them too.

As far as the actions of the Officer - it looks like a real firearm! Should the officer have risked his life or that of any bystanders to hit a smaller target (while under stress) which may or may not neutralize the threat?

Center Mass - neutralizes the threat!
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Last edited by hollywood...; October 26th, 2013 at 15:53..
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Old October 26th, 2013, 15:43   #39
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Originally Posted by volteco View Post
I totally understand. But 13 y.o. doesn't. He is basically just a kid, who still plays with little cars. For him it is all just a game, he doesn't understand how perilous it is. Just doesn't. Period. He is not old enough.
Common, guys some of us have kids too. So, what if it was 8 year old? 5 year old? Would they shoot him dead too?
Police officers are trained to shoot in the center of mass... Now wait just a second. Are they some sort of robots, machines? Don't they have brains? They have families too, and kids. Anyone can be in the place of that kid. What of it was a toy gun from toysrus?
How easy it is for a trained police officer to disarm 13 yo without just shooting him right away. If it is not easy he should not be a police officer on the first place.

When I was 13, I understood that a cop with a gun pointed at me and yelling instructions was one to be complied with. Comparing a replica gun/airsoft gun to a toys 'r us toy gun, its a terrible comparison and does not apply to the situation. Had the kid had a toy looking gun the issue would never occur as the cops would not have been called in the first place.

The cop was presented with an armed threat. Even after warning the threat to drop the weapon, the threat did not comply. Full stop.

Age does not come into play here as cop does not have time to ask him his age, nor his name or what his intent is. His job is to protect himself, and the public from an armed threat. By suggesting disarming the threat, are you suggesting that the cop should run towards an armed threat to tackle him?
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Old October 26th, 2013, 16:15   #40
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Well, I am not a police officer, and it is not for me to tell if his tactics are right or wrong. But I served 2 years in army, and I can tell I would not go to a point blank distance to an armed suspect, and then play some sort of western game "who shoots first". Police has (should have) knowledge and technology at it's side to deal with this kind of things.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 16:22   #41
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Originally Posted by volteco View Post
Well, I am not a police officer, and it is not for me to tell if his tactics are right or wrong. But I served 2 years in army, and I can tell I would not go to a point blank distance to an armed suspect, and then play some sort of western game "who shoots first". Police has (should have) knowledge and technology at it's side to deal with this kind of things.
it looks like a REAL firearm!

......and it gets you shot when you point it at a Police Officer!
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Old October 26th, 2013, 16:47   #42
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Originally Posted by hollywood... View Post
it looks like a REAL firearm!

......and it gets you shot when you point it at a Police Officer!
Well, maybe it does. But it should not be like that for a 13 yo.
The problem here is the whole system, the police officer being just a part of it. It is very... "loose", permissive. But if you happen to cross the line, it panishes you hard.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 16:58   #43
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Well, I am not a police officer, and it is not for me to tell if his tactics are right or wrong. But I served 2 years in army, and I can tell I would not go to a point blank distance to an armed suspect, and then play some sort of western game "who shoots first". Police has (should have) knowledge and technology at it's side to deal with this kind of things.
What trade in the Army?
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Old October 26th, 2013, 17:05   #44
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Originally Posted by volteco View Post
Well, maybe it does. But it should not be like that for a 13 yo.
The problem here is the whole system, the police officer being just a part of it. It is very... "loose", permissive. But if you happen to cross the line, it panishes you hard.
Because 13 year olds are incapable of shooting and killing people? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You're getting hung up on the kid's age and shifting the blame to the cops that thought they were facing a real threat and made a judgement call

The "whole system" yes the system is fucked but this isn't an example of where it failed, I'm not some pig apologist, ask anyone in off-topic, but in this case the cops actually did what they were supposed to do with tragic results.

Quote:
A video of the incident captured by another neighbor reportedly shows the two officers taking cover behind their patrol car with a body visible in the foreground.*
Sounds like they really thought there was a legitimate threat.

Quote:
.Rodrigo Lopez told the Santa Rosa Press Democrat his son had been taking the toy to a friend’s house and also carried a pretend pistol in his waistband.
Stupid parents should have got the kid a bag for his toy

I vote for AV revocation, stupids shouldn't have access to Airsoft lol
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Old October 26th, 2013, 18:12   #45
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I would never let my kids walk around with an airsoft gun.

Other report was saying that the kid has borrowed the gun from his friend so, parents could have not even known about the gun.
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