Airsoft Canada
BuyAirsoft

Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General
Home Forums Register Gallery FAQ Calendar
Retailers Community News/Info International Retailers IRC Today's Posts

Anyone else longing for a shift to real cap mags?

:

General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 5th, 2013, 14:27   #46
Aper
E-30
 
Aper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aegiis's Neighbor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR0M View Post
The way we make up for this is, if it takes 3 BBs to hit a target at 150ft, you move in closer to where it only takes 1 BB...
Sometimes this is impossible, so you suck it up and do a little recon once in a while if going oscar mike might compromise you and your squad.

A lot of people need to learn that you don't always have to shoot in airsoft, especially in Milsims. Some players are not ready to pay 20-30$ a day only to shoot a total of 8 BBs (real experience, happened to me last year).

Before going real cap, a player should know his rifle, it's capacities and range first, and then understand the game and his role on the field.
__________________

West Coast EOD Supporter. // Bang One, Bang Em All ! // In war, it's not who's right, but who's left.
Aper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2013, 14:55   #47
coach
aka coachster
 
coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: T dot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Being a participant in Quebec'a real cap games, I can say from experience that they are more intense and I enjoy them much more. In the first one of the year I chose to game a saw, and I can say that the feeling of having overwhelming fire superiority was amazing. By not being a total idiot in its use I was able to successfully turn the odds time and again in our favor and if not eliminate dislodge the opposition from positions we didn't want them in. Try this in non rc game and it would be much different. I can also say in an rc game that I have been on the receiving end of LMG fire and it can turn the odds against you rather quickly.
You bring up a good point. in a typical skirmish a saw/LMG has less of an impact than a real capped event where many will conserve ammo instead of pointlessly trading BB's. A lot of times, regular AR and AK operators will lean on the trigger thinking they are an LMG.

A good fire team/line that fires for effect and will exhaust their ammo to either make a stand or fall back can accomplish a very similar effect. It's more intimidating actually since the continuous hail of BB's is coming from multiple directions.
coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2013, 15:16   #48
Reaver_RRTS
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ingersoll, Ontario
I completely agree with everything everyone said lol. It's obviously easier to get a guaranteed kill when you move within your rifles' effective range. No airsoft gun can compete with a real steel weapon, so you have to make do with what you have. I'm against the use of high-caps. Too unrealistic, too noisy, and you basically have four magazines worth in one load, if not more. My buddy has a SAW, and I also agree that at a normal game the amount of ammunition everyone carries makes the support role pretty much pointless. I've always wanted to go to a field where everything is setup exactly as a real war zone would be. Real caps, real tactics, 'real' scenarios. Unfortunately I have no clue where places like that are around the London area in Ontario XD <-- rookie real caps would make people far more conscientious about how they play. Although i wouldn't wanna be on the receiving end of any kind of support weapon in that scenario lol
Reaver_RRTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2013, 16:04   #49
coach
aka coachster
 
coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: T dot
I'd love to see some of these BB hosers play semi only skirmish's with real cap/ short load mags.

Even with F/A restricted to short 2-3 second bursts, there's always someone who can't count to 3 and release their finger on the trigger within a fraction of a second. 3 seconds becomes 4, then 5 and so on. Running MOSFET's works but isn't the solution as a lot will refuse to spend the money on one as cheap as the pico. lol
coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2013, 16:28   #50
Reaver_RRTS
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ingersoll, Ontario
I don't usually use F/A anyway, and as a DM i'm sticking to semi. But yes, that would be amusing to see them forced to use semi only. They'd probably freak out if the encountered multiple targets at once and weren't allowed to just spray and pray. Trigger discipline becomes a huge factor when playing semi only coupled with real caps and everyone becomes more aware of who they are targeting... well, most do. Hopefully.
Reaver_RRTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2013, 18:05   #51
CR0M
 
CR0M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hamilton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aper View Post
Sometimes this is impossible, so you suck it up and do a little recon once in a while if going oscar mike might compromise you and your squad.

A lot of people need to learn that you don't always have to shoot in airsoft, especially in Milsims. Some players are not ready to pay 20-30$ a day only to shoot a total of 8 BBs (real experience, happened to me last year).

Before going real cap, a player should know his rifle, it's capacities and range first, and then understand the game and his role on the field.
totally agree, and Im not arguing against that, because it all boils down to personal preference.

Am I the guy that plays to get as many "kills" as possible, or am I the guy looking for as much realism as I can get. (within the reason of plastic BBs of course)

My point is, I understand there is a compromise when having all the players switch to real caps. But for all the potential "kills" you might lose, you gain so much more tactical realism. (personal opinion)
__________________
WBR
CR0M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2013, 15:30   #52
Trev140_0
 
Trev140_0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelledPants View Post
Go to games which enforce a semi only rule for rifles. Mid cap or not, it reduces the hose effect and most people start shooting smarter.
We went to Semi only over a month ago.

We first did a poll on the private forum for Hill437. Surprisingly it was 27:1 to go semi.

Since we went semi, I can assure you guys are going through WAY less ammo now at our field. There is no spray and pray now.

And its irrelevant of how many bbs your mag holds now. Guys are simply not shooting as much period.

And this was not a minor change. It was major. I am seeing some guys now go on the field with just pistols and shotguns. Leaving the AEG in the car.

This also took care of the guys whos guns shoot 40 RPS and swear they are only tapping on the trigger and somehow only letting out "a few bbs" (cough)
__________________
www.Hill437.com

"....Your life is ending one minute at a time..."

Trev140_0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 13:25   #53
Brian McIlmoyle
8=======D
 
Brian McIlmoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
what are we all going for? realism.. semi only is not necessarily "realistic" modern soldiers carry select fire weapons for a reason. But all modern training doctrine is for Semi automatic fire. Support guns obviously must be permitted to fire on Full auto, or the utility of them is lost.

Ammo limits are the path to realism, not restrictions on the use of auto fire.

If you set and stick to strict limits for ammo, the use of full auto will moderate it's self.

Some of the best games I have run with respect to feedback set a strict ammo limit of 300 rounds FOR THE ENTIRE GAME for rifles, and 600 for support guns. over game play of 10 hours duration.

When you load up in the AM all the ammo you will have , every trigger pull is stressful, it's this stress that is remembered as fun at game end.
__________________
Brian McIlmoyle
TTAC3 Director
CAPS Range Officer
Toronto Downtown Age Verifier

OPERATION WOODSMAN

If the tongue could cut as the sword does, the dead would be infinite
Brian McIlmoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 13:38   #54
Long_Bong
 
Long_Bong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
what are we all going for? realism.. semi only is not necessarily "realistic" modern soldiers carry select fire weapons for a reason. But all modern training doctrine is for Semi automatic fire. Support guns obviously must be permitted to fire on Full auto, or the utility of them is lost.

Ammo limits are the path to realism, not restrictions on the use of auto fire.

If you set and stick to strict limits for ammo, the use of full auto will moderate it's self.

Some of the best games I have run with respect to feedback set a strict ammo limit of 300 rounds FOR THE ENTIRE GAME for rifles, and 600 for support guns. over game play of 10 hours duration.

When you load up in the AM all the ammo you will have , every trigger pull is stressful, it's this stress that is remembered as fun at game end.

+1
__________________
Long_Bong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 14:33   #55
Ricochet
Can I ask you a serious question? How much sand can you fit in your vagina?
 
Ricochet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
what are we all going for? realism.. semi only is not necessarily "realistic" modern soldiers carry select fire weapons for a reason. But all modern training doctrine is for Semi automatic fire. Support guns obviously must be permitted to fire on Full auto, or the utility of them is lost.

Ammo limits are the path to realism, not restrictions on the use of auto fire.

If you set and stick to strict limits for ammo, the use of full auto will moderate it's self.

Some of the best games I have run with respect to feedback set a strict ammo limit of 300 rounds FOR THE ENTIRE GAME for rifles, and 600 for support guns. over game play of 10 hours duration.

When you load up in the AM all the ammo you will have , every trigger pull is stressful, it's this stress that is remembered as fun at game end.
Mostly +1
__________________
ďREALITY IS LIKE A STONE. TO MANY ITíS HARD AND COLD, THEY CANíT HUG IT OR EAT IT, IT ONLY FRUSTERATES THEM AND DOESNíT DO THEM MUCH GOOD. TO OTHERS ITíS STRONG AND DEPENDABLE, YOU CAN BUILD WITH IT, BUILD UPON IT, OR WORK WITH IT, ALSO USE IT TO SMASH PEOPLE IN THE FACE.Ē
Ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 14:53   #56
Monkey King
 
Monkey King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Montreal
Let me open by saying, good points by both sides of this debate.

I am a new player. Only been playing for just over a year. So a newbie view is what I am giving you.

I LOVE real cap games.

- In short, having someone or myself just holding down full auto on an AEG hoping to get a lucky BB in seems just silly. Pointing at the sky and trying to lob a BB at someone doesn't do it for me.

- Also as mentioned by LongBong and a few others, there is a stress level added by having to reload...and realism. At Longs last game after 5-6 hours of fighting I finally ran out of the 200 (allowed 300 but didn't bring my loader) or so rounds I started off with. Reloads, and the constant worry about running out added to the intensity. Hell right near the end we were running off mags with 3-4 bb's in them, when Invasian ran out of mp7 mags, I tossed him one, he of course continued to destroy people...TEAM WORK Just really adds a whole other level to the game.

- If you don't think you have the range to hit your target, then move to a location of advantage. For example my last outdoor game myself and Invasian ran with a mp7 gbb and a glock. Many solid kills (many of which were glock kills) were thanks to speed and flanking.

- As for enforcing the rule...it's just as easy as people not calling hits issue. DON'T PLAY WITH THEM. It's also easy to tell if someone is shotting with a mag with 30 rounds in it or 100+ I want to note that I may have a narrow perspective when it comes to following rules. I tend to play with really good groups of people, so people cheating really doesn't happen. I've never really been exposed to people cheating, I think I'm lucky and very fortunate in that aspect.

To sum up, real cap adds to the game in many ways, and is definitely the way to go. I would strongly recommend anyone reading this to try to have a real cap game for their next game. Max 300 rounds and 600-800 for support. I'm going to make a generalization here and say many people choose to play airsoft for the aspect of realism, playing a real cap game only adds to the realism. In the end, this is all a matter of preference. Play hard, be honest and have FUN!
Monkey King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 15:20   #57
Invasian
Likes it BOLD attention whore MAXIMUS!
 
Invasian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: No Dancing Girls - Mtl
For all those who know me very well...I am definitely NOT one of those players....lol

I actually prefer CQB over open field engagements any day of the week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post

Incidentally, this is also why many players don't like CQB .. because the "Moar shooting" approach often fails and individuals with actual skill at arms prevail.

Last edited by Invasian; August 16th, 2013 at 15:43..
Invasian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 15:21   #58
Monkey King
 
Monkey King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Montreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post

Some of the best games I have run with respect to feedback set a strict ammo limit of 300 rounds FOR THE ENTIRE GAME for rifles, and 600 for support guns. over game play of 10 hours duration.
Love the sound of that!

But...I am not a military man so I have no clue. But...how many rounds would the standard soldier bring out with him if he knew he was entering an engagement that could potentially last the whole day.
Monkey King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 15:41   #59
Invasian
Likes it BOLD attention whore MAXIMUS!
 
Invasian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: No Dancing Girls - Mtl
i love those guys!!!!!





Quote:
Originally Posted by trev140_0 View Post
... I am seeing some guys now go on the field with just pistols and shotguns. Leaving the aeg in the car.
Invasian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2013, 16:01   #60
badrelko
 
badrelko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: kingston, ON
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
Love the sound of that!

But...I am not a military man so I have no clue. But...how many rounds would the standard soldier bring out with him if he knew he was entering an engagement that could potentially last the whole day.
Most infantry men carry 300 rounds and crew shared vehicles also carry 300 rounds for the vehicle

*source is my father who served in Afghanistan and on a UN tour we have discussions about the realness of milsims

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
__________________
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.

badrelko is offline   Reply With Quote
ReplyTop


Go Back   Airsoft Canada > General > General

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Airsoft Canada
BuyAirsoft

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 00:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.