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Anyone else longing for a shift to real cap mags?

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Old July 29th, 2013, 21:14   #16
Danke
 
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Originally Posted by Cobrajr122 View Post
That's like saying a smart car is not a real car...
Will it one shot stop a zombie?
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Old July 29th, 2013, 21:21   #17
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Whoa, he's right in the inner circle!
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Old July 30th, 2013, 10:41   #18
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Originally Posted by Danke View Post
Coming soon, gas gun only games.
I absolutely hope so!

I understand why youths like AEGs, but older players should see the realism of of a gas gun as a huge plus.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 15:05   #19
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Originally Posted by Basic-Wedge View Post
I understand why youths like AEGs, but older players should see the realism of of a gas gun as a huge plus.
You're instantly my favorite airsofter of the week.




As someone else mentioned there are a lot of Real Cap games in Quebec. The "push" for it started many years ago but the idea only started getting traction a few years ago, first as experimental games but the idea caught on with other organizers.

Different organizers have different setups/limits but as mentioned AEG users usually are made to load up their mags with ~32-36 BBs (most speed loaders will feed a constant number of BBs with each push, usually 4, so its easy to count); we also have a very large number of GBBR users. Total mag/ammo caps also make overloading mags less useful.

And as with everything else, cheaters must get the boot and the stigma of "cheater" makes other players and organizers scrutinize them even more, ultimately making rendering them persona non grata at most events if they are indeed found to be cheating regularly. Showing mercy to known cheaters is condoning cheating.

@CR0M: Good luck with getting real cap games, don't be afraid to push for it, don't back down. It's worth it.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 15:13   #20
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It's not, it's a $32,000 lunch box.
But it's the safest vehicle in it's class!
Also, I didn't know "enclosed scooter with training wheels" was a class of vehicle
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Old July 30th, 2013, 16:46   #21
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Originally Posted by lurkingknight View Post
1 BB does not equal 1 bullet.
That is a straw man argument--

if ammo is limited, you operate within the parameters of that limitation and within the parameters of the performance of the gun.

it does not take more bbs to hit than it takes bullets if you operate within the capabilities of the gun.

obviously this translates to much closer engagements.

Essentially Firearms have 10 times the effective range of Airsoft guns.

so if you want to engage with a airsoft gun and have a similar chance of hitting you need to be 10 times closer. With a pistol, this is within 20 feet, with a subgun ( short barrel carbine ) within 50 feet and with a longer barrel rifle within 100 feet. With a very long barrel.. out to 150 feet.

Certainly you can hit at longer ranges, but often only with a volume of fire approach, the more rounds the more probable a hit will be outside of your effective range. This is exactly the same with real guns.. if you want to hit outside your effective range it will take a lot more rounds to get the result you want.

The issue is most people engage targets well outside the effective range of their guns.. and start a fight at range where you have to pour on a lot of fire to get a result.

So 1 bb = 1 bullet if you operate within the effective range of your gun.


This is exactly why airsoft guns suck as simulators for engagements in the open field or woodland, Where engagements happen at 5, or 6 times the effective range of the guns, but are excellent simulators for firearms for CQB where engagements happen within the effective range of the guns.

Incidentally, this is also why many players don't like CQB .. because the "Moar shooting" approach often fails and individuals with actual skill at arms prevail.
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Last edited by Brian McIlmoyle; July 30th, 2013 at 16:54..
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Old July 30th, 2013, 16:57   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
That is a straw man argument--

if ammo is limited, you operate within the parameters of that limitation and within the parameters of the performance of the gun.

it does not take more bbs to hit than it takes bullets if you operate within the capabilities of the gun.

obviously this translates to much closer engagements.

Essentially Firearms have 10 times the effective range of Airsoft guns.

so if you want to engage with a airsoft gun and have a similar chance of hitting you need to be 10 times closer. With a pistol, this is within 20 feet, with a subgun ( short barrel carbine ) within 50 feet and with a longer barrel rifle within 100 feet. With a very long barrel.. out to 150 feet.

Certainly you can hit at longer ranges, but often only with a volume of fire approach, the more rounds the more probable a hit will be outside of your effective range. This is exactly the same with real guns.. if you want to hit outside your effective range it will take a lot more rounds to get the result you want.

The issue is most people engage targets well outside the effective range of their guns.. and start a fight at range where you have to pour on a lot of fire to get a result.

So 1 bb = 1 bullet if you operate within the effective range of your gun.


This is exactly why airsoft guns suck as simulators for engagements in the open field or woodland, Where engagements happen at 5, or 6 times the effective range of the guns, but are excellent simulators for firearms for CQB where engagements happen within the effective range of the guns.

Incidentally, this is also why many players don't like CQB .. because the "Moar shooting" approach often fails and individuals with actual skill at arms prevail.
Well said.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:02   #23
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Naked Gun 2 1/2 - Gun Fight - YouTube

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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:03   #24
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While I do agree with running amo limits. You can't compare BB's to bullets. Yes in an open area you should be able to cope at 1:1. However, an obstacle as simple as a leaf will cause a BB to deviate, where as a bullet would not. Real cap is not as simple as running 1:1 in the bush. This doesn't mean you need 2-3 times the amo count, but an increase from real bullet counts are in order.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:04   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
That is a straw man argument--

if ammo is limited, you operate within the parameters of that limitation and within the parameters of the performance of the gun.

it does not take more bbs to hit than it takes bullets if you operate within the capabilities of the gun.

obviously this translates to much closer engagements.

Essentially Firearms have 10 times the effective range of Airsoft guns.

so if you want to engage with a airsoft gun and have a similar chance of hitting you need to be 10 times closer. With a pistol, this is within 20 feet, with a subgun ( short barrel carbine ) within 50 feet and with a longer barrel rifle within 100 feet. With a very long barrel.. out to 150 feet.

Certainly you can hit at longer ranges, but often only with a volume of fire approach, the more rounds the more probable a hit will be outside of your effective range. This is exactly the same with real guns.. if you want to hit outside your effective range it will take a lot more rounds to get the result you want.

The issue is most people engage targets well outside the effective range of their guns.. and start a fight at range where you have to pour on a lot of fire to get a result.

So 1 bb = 1 bullet if you operate within the effective range of your gun.


This is exactly why airsoft guns suck as simulators for engagements in the open field or woodland, Where engagements happen at 5, or 6 times the effective range of the guns, but are excellent simulators for firearms for CQB where engagements happen within the effective range of the guns.

Incidentally, this is also why many players don't like CQB .. because the "Moar shooting" approach often fails and individuals with actual skill at arms prevail.
Could not agree more. This should be explained to every new player... and even some long time players.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:09   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repeat View Post
While I do agree with running amo limits. You can't compare BB's to bullets. Yes in an open area you should be able to cope at 1:1. However, an obstacle as simple as a leaf will cause a BB to deviate, where as a bullet would not. Real cap is not as simple as running 1:1 in the bush. This doesn't mean you need 2-3 times the amo count, but an increase from real bullet counts are in order.
.28s from a GBBR shooting .20 at 400 fps.. will break sticks as thick as your finger.. within 100 feet... leaves.. don't bother them much .. but again.. this has to do with effective range.. and the limitations of the weapon..and projectiles

you would not try to engage a target behind effective cover with a real gun.. you would suppress the targets movement and move for a clear shot. Why is this different with airsoft?
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:10   #27
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Originally Posted by Drakker View Post
Could not agree more. This should be explained to every new player... and even some long time players.
I think I just did...
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:14   #28
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We have been toying with gas and springer (snipers/shotguns) games in the lower mainland and had a ball the one game so far. Great idea with the low-cap in a midcap. I guess you could mark a line on a cheap loader at 30'ish if its not marked already.

Anyone who is interested feel free to join.

http://www.lowermainlandairsoft.ca/forum/
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:14   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
I think I just did...
If we take for granted that every new player will read this thread, well, yeah, you just did.

Just make sure this thread doesn't end up in the FAQ section, otherwise the previous statement might be false. ;)
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Old July 30th, 2013, 17:16   #30
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I ve been hosting around 15 real caps game outdoor and indoor and won t go back. It sure has limitation outdoor, but less full auto trigger happy and reload stress is priceless IMO. Support weapon now also has a role.

Indoor, I use black BB for competitive game, real cap + you need to aim, not eyeball adjust the white beam coming out of yout AEG... it change the game!
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