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Solution to reduce cheating at indoor games

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Old July 16th, 2013, 13:40   #31
Hectic
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Cheaters who wer id'd wer removed promtly asked not to return and are on the ban list.
The large group who could not be id due to ths fact they wer all dressed like clones of eachother wer pulled aside and advised that if it continiued they would be banned as a group.
Their leader/translator talked to them. They played one more game without issue and left. They will no longer be able to sign up if they dont have their own ASC names (noone will) and they will be watched closely.

As for the faceshot thing.
I did suggest others dont do this and gave the ultimate solution for IDing cheaters. Just walk right up have a good look ask for a name and say nothing else. Take your info to game controll.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 13:54   #32
Brian McIlmoyle
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If you witness Cheating.. and don't take direct and immediate action by walking over to the offending player and asking if they felt the hit, and pointing out that they have made an error in Judgment. They you are just as responsible for the proliferation of bad behavior as the offending player is.

Also in my experience as a Game host .. most incidents of "cheating" are simply people not getting shot enough. Fire for effect.. engage the target, and continue to engage until that target calls hit. Give your buddy the benefit of the doubt and shoot him again.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 13:58   #33
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Best quote I've read so far.

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Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle View Post
Give your buddy the benefit of the doubt and shoot him again.
PS. When I get a chance to meet some of you on the field I fully give you permission to properly light me up if I seem to not call a hit.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 14:12   #34
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When in doubt, call hit. It's all just for fun anyway.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 14:30   #35
Hectic
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This rule is always stressed everywhere. "when in doubt call OUT!"
it is the folks who are blatant we are talking about. They do exist but with proper policing they dont last long. I think we had two folks sent home and banned on sunday.
Hopefully anyone else who considers cheating will see the example made of them and just play by the rules like the rest of us
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Old July 16th, 2013, 15:15   #36
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so you are willing to cause someone a permanent injury because he's being unsportsmanlike by shooting him in the face?

I don't care if you think he should be wearing face protection and it's his fault if he isn't. You are taking potentially a weapon with what can be seen as intent to injure to force that guy to call a hit.

That's a dick move, and that's dangerous and you're asking for a violent confrontation if not legal if you keep that shit up. What if you mistakenly shoot the guy in face that didn't genuinely feel the hit? What if you break some teeth? Are you going to pay for his dental? That's a can of worms there that brings you down below the level of a cheater.

He didn't feel it? he didn't call it? shoot somewhere soft that isn't going to do anything permanent. If he flinches and still doesn't call it, then you confront him about it, you don't escalate the situation by intentionally causing harm.

This is a game of sportsmanship and honor, where is that when you intentionally shoot someone in the face?
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Old July 16th, 2013, 15:59   #37
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Make the nametags mandatory and/or apply tape on players and write their callsigns on it with marker.
Simple,cheap and can save time and games.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:22   #38
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Wow apparently people thought I was serious in suggesting 500fps minimum... Yes cheaters are annoying but how many sports are there that don't have cheaters?
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:26   #39
Brian McIlmoyle
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There is no need to shoot people in the face.. the thigh hurts plenty as well

This is how "cheating" normally plays out..

You shoot a guy.. see the bb hit a bounce off him.. then you move on to shoot someone else .. and the first guy turns and shoots you.

who is at fault here? YOU ARE because you assumed that the guy you shot felt it.. and you did not confirm that the target was down before moving on.


This is how it should play out..

You see the guy,, and you begin to shoot at him.. and you continue to shoot him until such time as he calls hit and puts his hand up and lowers his gun. At this point you KNOW he is hit.


This exact situation played out just this past weekend..

I had a short squad on the move through a forest road.. we took fire from the right side.. we turned and assaulted in the direction of the fire and found and shot the shooter. Then almost instantly another shooter opened up to our left. Again we turned to the fire and assaulted. I was in the advance with a guy to the left and right of me, we all saw a guy hunkered down by a tree and we all engaged him. He did not move. I was shouting LOUD to assault and move through the contact and we had 3 submachine guns firing at the same time at this guy, it was LOUD. We did not hear him calling hit.. he was... but he was not moving and he continued to have his weapon pointed in the direction of the rest of the squad.

We continued to POUR fire on him.. till finally he screamed HIT HIT loud enough ( at this point we were pretty close to him .. within 20 feet ) and raised his hand... At this Obvious indication of his condition we stopped firing.

He was in that moment, pretty mad at us.. he probably got hit with 20 rounds or more. But I explained that we were not certain he was hit, as he continued to hold a threatening posture and we did not hear him call hit.
There was doubt .. and when there is doubt there is no doubt you need to shoot more.

If you take things in this way.. you encounter practically no "Cheating" but you do deal with a few people who are mad for getting shot at a game that is about getting shot ( kinda like complaining about getting wet at a swim meet)
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:40   #40
Rusty Lugnuts
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IN the bush continuing to shoot at someone who should already be dead- just gives away your position, cheaters suck and should not be tolerated -Stop the game get to the bottom of it.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:46   #41
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IN the bush continuing to shoot at someone who should already be dead- just gives away your position, cheaters suck and should not be tolerated -Stop the game get to the bottom of it.
not in this case.. we were assaulting .. everyone knew where we were

and how do you know who "should be dead" they are not hit till they call hit.. people should not be given the option to shrug a hit.. it's hard to shrug em if they don't stop.

Most people who end up feeling cheated.. did it to themselves by assuming that the other guy felt the hit. If this was real you would not stop shooting till that threat goes down and stays down.

This is a game of honour, you must operate under the presumption that the other guy is as honourable as you are, that if provided with the proper stimulus they will perform in the appropriate way. You job is to provide the appropriate stimulus.

I have witnessed cheating.. we all have but what a lot of people call cheating is actually just someone who did not feel the hit.. and another person who assumed they did.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:49   #42
Hectic
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Again lurking. I wasnt suggesting this was the best course of action and stated what the correct course should be. This team in paticular that we werdealing with was a super pain in the ass. Also i do assume they didnt feel the hit and give them the benifate of the doubt. Take the hit go respawn and return to the same location and shoot em again. I put 3-5 shots on the target i put em in the chest in the shoulder in the hand only to be shot at again. If the neck or side or leg was available to shoot at i would have used that but all that was available was half a chest one arm shoulder and hand and a helmet and half a face. So what is the soft spot to shoot? The face and what happens with one shot. A loud call of hit. I was aiming to prove my point that they wer blatantly not calling their hits. And i was proven right on 3 seperate players.
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
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Old July 16th, 2013, 16:54   #43
Brian McIlmoyle
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blatantly not calling their hits. And i was proven right on 3 seperate players.
Seen this kind of behavior before as well in groups that seem to have different standards as to what a hit is.

In this case I attempt behavior modification using the PAIN=WRONG method.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 17:07   #44
Hectic
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Exactly what i was tryin to achieve once it hurt them they called no problem for fear of being hurt again. I was the only one on my team rocking full ACU and after one shot to the face they wer sure to call every hit i sent at the cause they knew what would likely happen if they didnt call. The team in question has been entirely banned from ultimate airsoft and it is becoming prety obvious they are just going to continue to be an ongoing problem and most likely wont be welcom at the field again.
The same sort of thing happens often when im sniping. Ill take a shot way out at 300feet and because its only one BB the player will look at where theywer hit and readjust their cover as to not get hit again. Through the scope you can clearly see the reaction and you know you got the kill. So you throw another confirmed kill in your log and get closer. And as Lurking suggests you shoot em someplace a lil more tender. I like the hand,neck inner thigh or side under the arm. Or one of my personal favorite is when folks have full face protection is right in the goggles even tho they dont feel it you almost always get em to scream "holy shit!" or something along those lines that is always hard for them to shrug off.
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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Old July 16th, 2013, 18:22   #45
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know the venue, know the people and things are usually ok...

read the AAR for games at fields your interested in one day playing at in the future...

for instance, last year's arms festival in wasaga the AAR had some not so pleasant stories, and thus I didnt really care what they had planned for this last one but I wasnt going.

thats the great thing about airsoft in Ontario, theres lots of fields and no reason to have to settle with playing at fields with cheaters
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