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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:10   #46
Proliphic
 
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Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
We cannot tell you where to buy guns.

If you read as much as you say, you should have read the rules.

-No posting of 18+ items outside the AV sections

Get Age verified to prove you're 18+ and you'll find out where to get them.
Appearently you don't read too well either or you'd have seen that I AM AV.

Never said it had to be posted in the open forum there are pm's.
now if that is all the flaming you are going to post I'd appreciate helpful posts instead.

Cheers.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:19   #47
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well all i can say about the l96 is that it's a dam heavy gun.so if you want to lug a heavy gun that's the to get.
also you might think about the kjw 10/22 gbbr.it's light and it shoot well.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:22   #48
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well all i can say about the l96 is that it's a dam heavy gun.so if you want to lug a heavy gun that's the to get.
also you might think about the kjw 10/22 gbbr.it's light and it shoot well.
I'll take a look at it. But I'm leaning towards spring rather than gas.
Thanks for the info.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:23   #49
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Originally Posted by Proliphic View Post
Appearently you don't read too well either or you'd have seen that I AM AV.

Never said it had to be posted in the open forum there are pm's.
now if that is all the flaming you are going to post I'd appreciate helpful posts instead.

Cheers.
Sorry about the get AV'd thing.

But then again, you are asking us to tell you where to get a gun OUTSIDE the AV section.

I can tell you that there is a retailer that does cuatom order in the AV retailer section. You should search there.
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So you're saying we cannot engage in a hobby once we are older?

Children these days.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:24   #50
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Originally Posted by Proliphic View Post
Appearently you don't read too well either or you'd have seen that I AM AV.

Never said it had to be posted in the open forum there are pm's.
now if that is all the flaming you are going to post I'd appreciate helpful posts instead.

Cheers.
If he is using an app like tapatalk, your av tag cannot be seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
We cannot tell you where to buy guns.

If you read as much as you say, you should have read the rules.

-No posting of 18+ items outside the AV sections

Get Age verified to prove you're 18+ and you'll find out where to get them.
Note what is bolded. Does not matter what your status is, this is the noob tank. Requesting over pm in the noob tank is essentially the same thing.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:35   #51
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Originally Posted by coach View Post
If he is using an app like tapatalk, your av tag cannot be seen



Note what is bolded. Does not matter what your status is, this is the noob tank. Requesting over pm in the noob tank is essentially the same thing.
Well I appoligize for asking about it outside the AV section but I figured it would be acceptable if the answers were given via PM and not posted in the public for all to see. And seeing as that I am a noob I figured this is the place for me to be for now rather then postin in the AV section and getting the hell flamed out of me for being a noob and not posting in the noob tank.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 19:47   #52
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Originally Posted by Proliphic View Post
Hmm. Can u explain how that is ? Would a .30 bb fired at 450fps go further and straighter then the same bb fired at 300 fps ?

Also does anyone have any other information on the <366fps all black not being able to be imported to Canada ?

Because if the maruzen type 96 is superior to the ASG AW .308 but un-obtainable in Canada then that will not be a viable option to consider.

Thanks
you wouldnt fire a .30 at 450 fps you would have a gun that shoots a .20 bb at 450fps by putting a .30 in tha rifly the velocity would drop to 367.42fps and then yes the .30 travelling slower would shoot farther and more accurately, why you ask, well ill tell you because both of them have the same energy when they exit the barrel 1.88 joule's and as they travel the will both loose energy mostly due to wind resistance, here is where the heavier bb shines.
in the first 50ft or so the .20 will shed a heap of velocity around 50-75fps
out at 100-150ft or so the .2 will have almost no energy and will be going slowwer then the .3 (not by much maybe 5-10fps) but the .30 will still have
.8-.9 joules of energy so the target will still feel it
add on top of that the fact that if there are any other environmental changes along the way (a breeze, warm patch or cold patch even a change in elevation) the .20 will be effected far greater the the .30.
snipers observe theese things more the the average playerwe take couses so we can use higher fps but not for the sake of fps its to allow us to use heavier bbs so we can keep our rifles in the ideal fps range(300-360) while increasing effective range ie i use a vsr10 shooting 512 on .20 i run .40 bbs and that brings me down to 362.04fps and gives me good energy out past 300feet. that said if i had an m4 shooting 512 and ran .40 id never get the same results why? because aegs arent as consistant (too many mooving parts to leak air abd cause inconsistancies) and the hop up just isnt as efficent as a vsr hop up, especially the laylax hop up i have in my rifle.

touching on yer first post now, you say you dont wanna spend 800 bucks on a rifle, let it be known that in order for a bolt action to perform well enough to compeat with the aegs on the field(and even so youll still be out gunned you only advatage will be stealth) youll need the gun 180-300 (for 3-400 you can get an aeg rdy to go) a good barrel 80-100 hop up 100 spring guide and spring 70-100 sears30-50 and a piston 60-100
after that you may as well do the cylender and cylender head 150-200
you do the math youll be over 1000 bucks to have a decent bolt action and even then youll prolly be disapointed that you lay roundin the mud all day for one good kill if you even get one kill
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
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Last edited by Hectic; March 6th, 2013 at 19:56..
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Old March 6th, 2013, 20:35   #53
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Originally Posted by Hectic View Post
you wouldnt fire a .30 at 450 fps you would have a gun that shoots a .20 bb at 450fps by putting a .30 in tha rifly the velocity would drop to 367.42fps and then yes the .30 travelling slower would shoot farther and more accurately, why you ask, well ill tell you because both of them have the same energy when they exit the barrel 1.88 joule's and as they travel the will both loose energy mostly due to wind resistance, here is where the heavier bb shines.
in the first 50ft or so the .20 will shed a heap of velocity around 50-75fps
out at 100-150ft or so the .2 will have almost no energy and will be going slowwer then the .3 (not by much maybe 5-10fps) but the .30 will still have
.8-.9 joules of energy so the target will still feel it
add on top of that the fact that if there are any other environmental changes along the way (a breeze, warm patch or cold patch even a change in elevation) the .20 will be effected far greater the the .30.
snipers observe theese things more the the average playerwe take couses so we can use higher fps but not for the sake of fps its to allow us to use heavier bbs so we can keep our rifles in the ideal fps range(300-360) while increasing effective range ie i use a vsr10 shooting 512 on .20 i run .40 bbs and that brings me down to 362.04fps and gives me good energy out past 300feet. that said if i had an m4 shooting 512 and ran .40 id never get the same results why? because aegs arent as consistant (too many mooving parts to leak air abd cause inconsistancies) and the hop up just isnt as efficent as a vsr hop up, especially the laylax hop up i have in my rifle.

touching on yer first post now, you say you dont wanna spend 800 bucks on a rifle, let it be known that in order for a bolt action to perform well enough to compeat with the aegs on the field(and even so youll still be out gunned you only advatage will be stealth) youll need the gun 180-300 (for 3-400 you can get an aeg rdy to go) a good barrel 80-100 hop up 100 spring guide and spring 70-100 sears30-50 and a piston 60-100
after that you may as well do the cylender and cylender head 150-200
you do the math youll be over 1000 bucks to have a decent bolt action and even then youll prolly be disapointed that you lay roundin the mud all day for one good kill if you even get one kill
Ok you didn't really explain anything there. I understand how wind resistance, hot air pockets (up drafts ) and elevation affect projectiles.

And you took my question and changed it into something else.

I know a heavier bb will travel slower then a lighter one.

I asked if a gun firing a .30 bb @ 300fps will have the same range and accuracy as a .30 bb @ 475fps.

I am not asking about a gun that fires a .20 @ 450 and the conversions.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 20:52   #54
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As a new sniper owning the G&G G96, I'll let you know that the range and accuracy will rely HEAVILY on the Hop-Up unit, as mentioned before. Being heavier, the bb will withstand the turbulence of flight better than a lighter round, not being blown around as easily and what not. Theoretically speaking, the difference between the velocity will be the amount of jules the rifle is outputting.

At 475fps a .30 will travel ABOUT 240 feet on average, while at 300 it might go about 200 or so. Don't quote me, theres TONS of factors. At 475 it's likely to output around 2.5 jules at a guess with .3's? Range and accuracy also factors in the quality of the bb you're using, if the seam is raised your accuracy will be botched, so make sure to invest in good brand names for ammo. Steady aim is a must, so a bipod or some form of stabilizing the rifle is recommended (I use a backback I modified to carry a ghillie cover)

The Hop-up adds backspin to the bb, much like the APEX and APEX-2 did in paintball. Get it in the sweet spot and it'll fly the furthest. And keep in mind the faster the gun is shooting, the harder it will be to track the bb… My first crack at the G96 I was firing .26's and the gun was firing at 685fps out of the box, so I'm modifying it for HPA to bring down the power and make it more consistent. Anyway, I digress. Faster isn't always better.

As mentioned before, the barrel, hop-up unit and the air seal will be the most vital upgrades, and I will be swapping them out in my own rifle.

If anyone has any additional information or corrections to make, feel free.

EDIT: Oh, and if you didn't already know, upgrading the spring in a spring powered sniper will make re-chambering harder the more powerful the spring is. That's why I chose gas, so I wouldn't end up like a Left 4 Dead 2 Charger lol

Last edited by Reaver_RRTS; March 6th, 2013 at 21:07..
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:12   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proliphic View Post
Ok you didn't really explain anything there. I understand how wind resistance, hot air pockets (up drafts ) and elevation affect projectiles.

And you took my question and changed it into something else.

I know a heavier bb will travel slower then a lighter one.

I asked if a gun firing a .30 bb @ 300fps will have the same range and accuracy as a .30 bb @ 475fps.

I am not asking about a gun that fires a .20 @ 450 and the conversions.
its a moot point noone will fire a .30 at 475 fps thats 581.75 on a .20 the highest certification for snipers allows 550, but to answer that yes, why because above 420fps or so a .30 will become verry unstable and so it would be useless anyhow, putting a .43 in such a hot rifle would work best but all things equal say a vsr fully upgraded and only swapping the spring for fps change 300-500 fps would have about the same range and accuracy only downside would be if a target at maximum range would be able to feel the hit enough for them to call it through their gear or layers of clothing, the answer to that is probably no so your effective range in combat would be reduced a lil bit with lower fps but not by a whole lot say 40-50 feet again you could combat that with h a heavyer bb say a .36 (probaby the max youd wanna use in a 367fps gun, thats 300 on .30 put you at 274 with .36)
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Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoorn View Post
Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
Lvl. 3 certified sniper
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:21   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaver_RRTS View Post
As a new sniper owning the G&G G96, I'll let you know that the range and accuracy will rely HEAVILY on the Hop-Up unit, as mentioned before. Being heavier, the bb will withstand the turbulence of flight better than a lighter round, not being blown around as easily and what not. Theoretically speaking, the difference between the velocity will be the amount of jules the rifle is outputting.

At 475fps a .30 will travel ABOUT 240 feet on average, while at 300 it might go about 200 or so. Don't quote me, theres TONS of factors. At 475 it's likely to output around 2.5 jules at a guess with .3's? Range and accuracy also factors in the quality of the bb you're using, if the seam is raised your accuracy will be botched, so make sure to invest in good brand names for ammo. Steady aim is a must, so a bipod or some form of stabilizing the rifle is recommended (I use a backback I modified to carry a ghillie cover)

The Hop-up adds backspin to the bb, much like the APEX and APEX-2 did in paintball. Get it in the sweet spot and it'll fly the furthest. And keep in mind the faster the gun is shooting, the harder it will be to track the bb… My first crack at the G96 I was firing .26's and the gun was firing at 685fps out of the box, so I'm modifying it for HPA to bring down the power and make it more consistent. Anyway, I digress. Faster isn't always better.

As mentioned before, the barrel, hop-up unit and the air seal will be the most vital upgrades, and I will be swapping them out in my own rifle.

If anyone has any additional information or corrections to make, feel free.

EDIT: Oh, and if you didn't already know, upgrading the spring in a spring powered sniper will make re-chambering harder the more powerful the spring is. That's why I chose gas, so I wouldn't end up like a Left 4 Dead 2 Charger lol
yer prety well on the money there reaver only yer numbers are a bit off, .3@475fps (or.2@582fps) is 3.14joules.
and ranges once hop up is used will be far greater, .36@381fps(.20@512) in my vsr has a gameable range of 300-350feet and i can hit a static target across open ground at 400-450feet no problem (of course i gotta aim hella high lol)
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Originally Posted by m102404 View Post
Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoorn View Post
Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
Lvl. 3 certified sniper
FinchFieldAirsoft
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:28   #57
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Guys. I only used those numbers as a baseline to understand the logic that a gun firing a bb at 300 fps would have the same effective range as the same bb fired at 475 from the same gun.

I know they are not factual numbers.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:37   #58
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either way the answer will be the same, her is another example an easy one that all us old timers will have seen first hand many times. ( and im not even that much of an old timer only 6 years here)
A TM M4 bone stock 280fps on a .20 pitted against an older JG M4 bone stock shooting 390fps on a .20 (theese are ral numbers of those guns in stock form)
the TM will hands down have better range and accuracy, the TM will have better tolerences have a better hop up unit and rubber and likely a better barrel too.
upgrade the TM to 390 fps and it will have the same range and accuracy, but yo can use a heavier bb and gain some range and accuracy like that
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
Quote:
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
Lvl. 3 certified sniper
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:55   #59
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You want to know why a High quality TM or Maruzen shooting below 330fps will out perform a 450fps piece of junk?

Simple: Quality

Better smoother barrels make for a better, smoother airflow that sustains the BBs trajectory longer.

Better air seal will keep the rifle consistent at every shot

Better piston and cylinder will make for better operation and, again, better airflow and more consistent velocity.

Better trigger means you won't jerk the rifle while squeazing the trigger.

There are your answers.

I learned those while reading on ASC.

Go for quality from the begining. It's not elitist, it's just common sense.
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So you're saying we cannot engage in a hobby once we are older?

Children these days.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 21:59   #60
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Agreed I built my bolt action on a TSD SD700 (a VSR10 clone) and tho after 800 bucks in upgrades it was a prety decent gun ill say i cant wait till next week when my TM gets here its been a long time comming and even with all the high end internals the base gun having sloppy tolerences makes for too many inconsistant shots and leaves much to be desired, hence doing the foot work and finding a TM VSR10 to put all my internals into
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Hectic....FFS start writing in coherent sentences!!!
Quote:
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Thanks Hectic,
While your posts are sometimes a difficult read, you sure are helpfull
Lvl. 3 certified sniper
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