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Old December 27th, 2012, 18:23   #16
Ricochet
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Originally Posted by Spike View Post
it's 500fps AND 5.7joules... which is like 785fps
Yup
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Old December 27th, 2012, 19:13   #17
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Point in case, the quoted info (from the website) is correct.

However there's always a chance an item will be seized for inspection/testing anyway (which will delay delivery, possibly for months+) and the import is subject to duty and taxes, in addition to int'l shipping from the US; so while the initial sticker price may have been attractive the total bill will often be much higher. Compared to guns purchased from Canadian retailers the deal isn't always that great: a lot of Canadian prices are only about $20-50 above US prices, you'll pay less for shipping and if you're buying out of province you'll only pay GST.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 19:19   #18
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Originally Posted by Drake View Post
Point in case, the quoted info (from the website) is correct.

However there's always a chance an item will be seized for inspection/testing anyway (which will delay delivery, possibly for months+) and the import is subject to duty and taxes, in addition to int'l shipping from the US; so while the initial sticker price may have been attractive the total bill will often be much higher. Compared to guns purchased from Canadian retailers the deal isn't always that great: a lot of Canadian prices are only about $20-50 above US prices, you'll pay less for shipping and if you're buying out of province you'll only pay GST.
This! If its available in Canada, buy it in Canada; If its not, it is best to have a proper importer bring it in for you. They can attach it to their next order, and the savings are yours. Minus of course a possible mark up; they do have to make a little money. Another thing to remember is that if a retailer carries a brand name (like KWA, Ares, Systema, etc), and they don't have a certain product of that brand name in their catalogue, they can probably get it; and with the least additional cost, because they order from there anyways.
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Last edited by Ricochet; December 27th, 2012 at 19:24..
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Old December 27th, 2012, 19:34   #19
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Originally Posted by Dimitri View Post
Explain that to the masses, even LEO's and CBSA, that treat the 500fps rule the same way they did before Bill 10 passed in 2003, to keep all the legally owned pellet guns from becoming regulated firearms over night due to the RCMP's meddling with plastic pellets.

Dimitri
I'm not sure if you realize this but when companies like Crosman and Daisy make 495 FPS pellet guns they're using standard pellets (typically around 8 grain). You can get "hyper velocity" pellets that are like 4.5 grain that make those "495 FPS" guns shoot higher than what they're tested with (ie. a gun might fire 400 FPS with .20 but 500 FPS using .12g because it has the same energy). That's why they have the inclusion of "AND" 5.7 Joules.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 22:25   #20
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Originally Posted by L473ncy View Post
I'm not sure if you realize this but when companies like Crosman and Daisy make 495 FPS pellet guns they're using standard pellets (typically around 8 grain). You can get "hyper velocity" pellets that are like 4.5 grain that make those "495 FPS" guns shoot higher than what they're tested with (ie. a gun might fire 400 FPS with .20 but 500 FPS using .12g because it has the same energy). That's why they have the inclusion of "AND" 5.7 Joules.
I know very well what I'm talking about, it was the RCMP's firearm lab that decided to play with Hypervelocity rounds, and then even with the NFA's requests to add a energy limit for a long time, their official stance is:

Quote:
"Administrative Policy #14: Air, Spring or Gas firearms which are identified as capable of discharging 177 calibre pellets, shall be tested for velocity, if required[?],z to establish whether they are 'Deemed Non-Firearms' under Part III of the Criminal Code of Canada, section 84(3)(d)(i) and (ii). Breech loading -- Air, Spring or Gas shall be tested with all standards of ammunition that the firearm is capable of discharging [emphasis in original]. In the case where the firearm feeds only from a cylindrical magazine or other type of feed device, only those pellets which will feed through the feed device shall be tested. When tested the results for record shall be those results which achieved the highest velocity of the test ammunition. Ammunition standards for velocity testing shall, as a minimum, include both "Lead Waisted Pellets" and "Laser Hawk, Hyper-Velocity Pellets."
Actually, to settle this "debate", right out of the Criminal Code of Canada:

Quote:
  • (d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
  • (i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
  • (ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.
It is "or" not "and", but if the "weapon" is designed by the manufacturer, or adapted by the user to break either of these rules, then it becomes a firearm. Which are the changes that were brought about by Bill 10 to make regular pellet guns non-regulated firearms again after hyper velocity pellets were introduced.

Since typical airsoft guns are designed to operate using .20g BB's, and are specified as such by the manufacturer, if the user gets a .20g BB going over 500fps, its a firearm.

Same way pellet guns didn't overnight end up being required to be registered, because of the "standard" pellet being used to determine speed by the manufacturer is acceptable, as long as the energy doesn't exceed 5.7 Joules of the original pellet used to determine velocity.

Dimitri

Last edited by Dimitri; December 27th, 2012 at 22:28..
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Old December 27th, 2012, 22:42   #21
Ricochet
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This is why airguns are given their own classification by the good people at the Canadian Firearms Program; and airsoft falls into this category. Feel free to call them if you like, they'll be happy to answer any of your questions.

And just to end this debate here is the airgun specific legalities:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...me_air-eng.htm
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