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Old December 12th, 2012, 19:34   #1
SideWazE
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
First Gun Purchase...

Hey all.

Well with my first post here on the Forum I'd like to get some thoughts/oppinions on the 3 different manufactures of the gun I'm looking to buy. While I am not asking the usual "Who makes the best gun?" question (lol) any advice is of course welcome .

So basically I know I'm buying an M92 Beretta and after doing some research (and still researching) I've narrowed it down to 3 different choices. Before I reveal them though let me say what I'm looking for,

- FULL Metal (yeah the less plastic the better lol)
- At least 310-340+fps
- Gas with realistic blow back
- Upgradeable internals (stronger springs, valves, ect)
- as close to the real thing as the law allows haha

I am aware of course there's a certain rating at the local Airsoft location with regards to how powerful is allowed. So if/when I compete I'll lower the power but for target practise and feel I'd like to bump it up to the most I can get. I also enjoy field stripping it down and cleaning so again the more realistic the better. I am not concerned with price, have no problems paying the money out for all I'm looking for either.

So here we go with my choices, again feel free to comment or give your thoughts on one or all or even suggest one that I don't have listed. Going to you guys as you all know more then me lol . In no particular order...

http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/4561...tol-BLACK.aspx

http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/1572...ck-Pistol.aspx

http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/4674...ft-Pistol.aspx

Obviously each manufacture is going to claim they make the best but hopefully I can get some 'practical' feedback from people who have used one/all these before. There's a HUGE difference between talking the talk and walking the walk.

Thanks so much in advance and look forward to reading your posts soon.

Cheers
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Old December 12th, 2012, 20:00   #2
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Of the three guns listed, I'd say KJW hands down.

First, I should mention, that although airsoftmegastore states they ship to Canada, they ONLY ship stuff in their Canada section. Those pistols are shooting too low to be classified as an "unregulated firearm", and are instead "replica firearms", which are illegal to import.

It's against forum rules to really discuss the acquisition of airsoft guns outside the Age Verified area, but I figured I'd give you a warning about importing.

Anyway, KJW M9s are quite common, and are a good mid-range gun. They are a Tokyo Marui clone, so you'll have lots of aftermarket parts. (btw, when you're looking for parts, you'll find most sites list them as Tokyo Marui (TM) parts, and not KJW parts).

WEs seem to be less popular (and a lot of people still have a bad taste in their mouth from the earlier gens that they put out), so I don't know a whole lot about their current quality.

I believe HFC is also a TM clone, but I haven't heard people talking about it, so I have no idea where the quality is on their guns. I don't hear people praising them, or going out of their way to recommend HFC, though.

Another that you could take a look at are KWA (on par, or higher than KJW, depending on who you ask), which has a functioning decocker (so when you put it into safety with the hammer cocked, it will decock it, just like the real one). KWA and KSC are the same brand, if I'm not mistaken. If you buy it in Canada, it'll be known as KWA. Note that KWA is not TM compatible.

Increasing or decreasing the velocity of a gas gun isn't as simple as just swapping a spring in an electric gun, so you might want to look into getting a pistol that already shoots in the range you're looking for. most pistols shoot well below 350FPS, which is the nearly universal limit for indoor CQB fields in Canada, so 310-340 FPS won't need to be lowered at all for playing.

If you're fine with spending lots of money, go with a TM M9, and pop it into a metal frame. If you don't want to do that, go with a KWA for its realism. If you want to go with just a good mid range gun, go with the KJW.

I read a review on TM's new M9A1 (all airsoft guns in Japan are plastic, so the TM M9 series guns, of all generations, are plastic), and it finished with: "So in summary - do you like the M9? Do you skirmish? Do you use a pistol? If yes, then buy the TM M9A1 and you will not regret it. If you don't skirmish, pick yourself up a KWA M9 as you'll not need to worry about its shortcomings, and can instead enjoy the enhanced feel of the metal body."
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Old December 12th, 2012, 20:10   #3
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Avoid the HFC but between the WE and KJWorks I'd say it's a tossup. The WE M92 surprisingly isn't that bad and Socomgear even uses the WE as the OEM for their "Resident Evil Biohazard Beretta". On one hand its probably to save money but on the other hand the design and durability is a lot better than their 1911 series. Avoid WE 1911's but the WE M92 and Gen4 Glocks rock (for the price).
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:10   #4
SideWazE
 
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Thanks for the info guys

Firestorm -

Appreciate the warning but I wasn't going to import, nor was I trying to buy with this post. Adding those links was for descriptive purposes only, lol hopefully stating this will not get me trouble (d'oh ). I'll be buying locally and most likely brand new, unless someone here is selling what I want used of course. I'll have to wait until I'm verified to see

I'll look more in to the KWA version for sure. Now I know the TM M92fs is all plastic (abs) so you are suggesting buying that one, swapping out the internals in to a metal frame and buy a metal slide as well? If so, why wouldn't I just buy the KJW full metal version and be done with it? From what I have 'read' they appear to be exactly the same as both are upgradeable, have the same spec's, parts and so on.

I have no problems learning/doing any upgrades, if I can strip a motor and build it up then upgrading my guns internals won't give me a prob lol. But I thank you for the advanced warning. Money isn't an issue either, I'd rather spend up front for what I want VS "settling" for something I'll just be selling later you know.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:16   #5
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The WE Gen4 Glock have poor surface finishing, and I heard most WE product have poor finishings.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:31   #6
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You won't be able to buy those guns off that website. you can only purchase guns shooting OVER (that's right over) 366 FPS. There's some weird Canadian fire arms laws involved.

I would go with the KJW. It's a pretty good TM clone company with good parts and pretty well built.
But avoid the HFC. I had an HFC Glock that lasted 2 days before going FUBAR. I only put about 200 shots thru it. I also couldn't find any parts for it.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:33   #7
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Yup, go with the KJW. Their Beretta is an excellent clone.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:43   #8
Off_kilter
 
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Personally i love KWA guns. Mine have had amazing performance...plus the addition of a functional decocker is awesome!
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Old December 12th, 2012, 21:53   #9
ThunderCactus
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Actually, my HFC beretta was one of the best, most reliable airsoft pistols I've ever seen
Incredibly accurate out to 200ft
fired down to 5 degrees
never jammed or let me down

only downsides are fixed hop (for .25s), no upgrade parts (dont need any), and HFC has a pretty decent lemon rate for pistols lol
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Old December 13th, 2012, 00:17   #10
FirestormX
 
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Originally Posted by SideWazE View Post
If so, why wouldn't I just buy the KJW full metal version and be done with it? From what I have 'read' they appear to be exactly the same as both are upgradeable, have the same spec's, parts and so on.
They're the same parts, but they're not built with the same quality. Most AEGs run off a gearbox designed by TM, but there's so much deviation in quality. From just using cheaper materials, to having completely misaligned gears when assembled.
Similarly gas blowback guns, while requiring less precision per se, still rely on the quality of their internals.

How much do you intend to use the gun, and where do you intend to use it? I really enjoy CQB, and not a game day goes by that I don't use my sidearm. In fact, I could say that I've probably fired my pistol more often than my primary in the past month. I use a TM M9 and a KJW M9 (mostly just the TM now), and they both serve me really well.

If you plan to just use it occasionally as a backup to your primary, you should be able to get away with a KJW/KWA just fine. If you plan to run CQB with just a pistol, you'll likely want to step up to a TM.

TM is given the blanket term of the highest teir pistol in most cases, but KJW and KWA aren't bad brands. Since they're full metal, I would just just go with them for the time being. If you go with a KJW, I think you can buy a TM down the line (as long as its not the brand new M9A1 from TM, which is slightly different), and everything should fit into your metal KJW body.

KWA has more realism, with its decocker, but it's not TM compatible. KWA itself has excellent support and replacement parts for their guns though, from what I hear, so you won't be stuck with a paperweight if something breaks.

As for your bit about getting AV'ed - if you do get AV'ed, KJW M9s go through the classifieds in the AV'ed section very frequently. Often with an extra mag or even a spare parts gun, for much cheaper than if you got them new.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 13:49   #11
SideWazE
 
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Originally Posted by FirestormX View Post
They're the same parts, but they're not built with the same quality. Most AEGs run off a gearbox designed by TM, but there's so much deviation in quality. From just using cheaper materials, to having completely misaligned gears when assembled.
Similarly gas blowback guns, while requiring less precision per se, still rely on the quality of their internals.

As for your bit about getting AV'ed - if you do get AV'ed, KJW M9s go through the classifieds in the AV'ed section very frequently. Often with an extra mag or even a spare parts gun, for much cheaper than if you got them new.
Lol, oh trust me I know about the parts thing and quality of said parts. Same goes with performance car parts that I used to sell. There's quality JDM parts that cost and there's Chinese knock-off's that crap out on ya lol. Now if I go with the KJW version and go to upgrade, can I or would I be using TM parts? Then at least I know what I'm putting in is top notch correct? Also other then the added decocking feature, would you say the KJW & KWA M9's are identical for power, percision, upgradeable and realistic field stripping that mimics the real Beretta? May sound silly but that's something I'm looking at too, lol as close to the "real thing" as possible is what I hope to get . Sorry for all the questions here but hey, only asking because I honestly don't know .

As for verified, oh yeah it won't be an issue. I'm definiately of age and I'm in contact with one of people in my area that does it. Hopefully get it done soon.

Thanks very much everyone for all the feedback, I REALLY apprecaite it. Lots to think and consider but having as much information as possible goes far when purchasing things like this. Next step will have to be getting on a team and playing a few rounds
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Old December 13th, 2012, 15:03   #12
FirestormX
 
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If you go with the KJW version, you can use TM parts. Not all parts that are "TM Compatible" are made by TM, nor are all TM parts superior to the aftermarket parts. Depending on the part you want, you'll need to do a little research. There's not too many brands though.

If you want realism, KWA is the most realistic, as far as airsoft guns go. Their M9s are called "M9 Personal Training Pistol (PTP)". It boasts "Realistic construction and field stripping". To be fair though, most most M9s field strip the same as a real pistol, but getting into the guts of it (trigger assmebly, etc) are obviously a bit different than a real one.

From the sounds of what you want, KWA would be best for you. Buy it, play a season with it, try out a TM M9 at a few games for comparison, and see how it goes. By the next year, you'll probably figure out the shortcomings of the KWA, and you'll be able to do some research to see if TMs suffer from that problem, and/or if there are aftermarket parts that fix that problem that are NOT available with KWA (aka KSC).

I guess a very simplified way to look at it, is you should go with KWA for realism, or TM for exceptional reliability. You could also go with KJW for a gun that has the TM aftermarket parts for easy fixing for reliability, and full metal to make it more realistic than TM, but has no functioning decocker.

KWA is not poor quality, though, so while the TM could be considered more reliable, it's not to say that KWA is not.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 15:42   #13
lurkingknight
 
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personally, I don't see the value in TM pistols when you have to pay so much to make them full metal.. it's ridiculous amounts of money when a KJW can use the same parts and can start out already full metal.

KWA is also an excellent choice, the gun itself starts cheaper, is full metal and shooting reasonably hard, though in some cases, a little too hard for cqb... but I'm told it can be fixed with a custom valve swap... of like 10$.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 20:56   #14
SideWazE
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
Thanks SO MUCH for all this info guys

I think I'm leaning towards the KJW brand more so only because it seems there's not a lot of aftermarket upgrades for the KWA. Think that's going to be the deciding factor. While the decocking feature is neat, that's about all it is and I'm pretty sure I can live without it so as not to sacrafice upgrading and customizing lol.

I'll keep ya all posted on what I get when I get it. Just want to see the Classifieds section (once verified) before buying brand new in case what I want (basically a stock form gun in great shape) is on there for cheaper then paying retail

Thanks again and take care eveyone.

Cheers
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Old December 13th, 2012, 21:32   #15
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The KJW and TM also have a crappy hop up design thats why TM is releasing a new version.

The KWA doesn't have a lot of aftermarket parts because it already has great gas inefficiency and nothing breaks routinely in them on propane.

The TM design is one that was designed for Duster. Running propane or Greengas through them will cause to fail eventually.

Some KWA guns do shoot hard but replacement valves are cheap and easy to replace.

Plus you can always pick up a m93r later and use the same mags
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