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Old October 8th, 2012, 14:27   #16
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The use of quality metals, everywhere. It seems more manufacturers are using steel or machined aluminum the receiver and barrel (the externals), this is key as pot metal just has a cheap and brittle feel to it. However most companies still make the trigger group from pot metal instead of steel, why??? These parts take large amounts of abuse and are likely to be the first thing to break (that or something on the bolt carrier). If you use high quality metals for the entire construction of the gun, or DON'T use pot metal anywhere, would be a big plus in my books.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 15:34   #17
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Keep in mind, electric recoil rifles are getting better each day. Although they still have a long way to go, they are certainly catching up. Take a fully upgraded Tokyo Marui So com/Sopmod/Scar for example. The few things they don't have over the gbbrs includes the fact that 2 bb's still drop free after each mag change, and the recoil still isn't quite there yet. Real Sword toyed with the idea of a magnetic blow back, but put he project on hold. Anyways, just something to think about.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 17:49   #18
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What about a GBBR that would use a electro-pneumatic system (sort of like high end paintball markers) with a built in regulator.

That plus refillable C02 mags (Instead of using those stupid catriges).

my 2 cents
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Old October 8th, 2012, 18:49   #19
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the problem with refillable CO2 mags is that they would have to undergo CSA testing and certification to be sold in Canada. the cartridges them selfs are already certified and have built in safety features.

electric recoil guns though an improvement over regular AEGs, are still AEGs at heart and still have its short falls. nothing beats the trigger response of a gas gun. the whole dynamics of a gas gun are far closer to that of a real firearm, and AEGs just can't substitute that feel.

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Originally Posted by SuperCriollo View Post
What about a GBBR that would use a electro-pneumatic system (sort of like high end paintball markers) with a built in regulator.

That plus refillable C02 mags (Instead of using those stupid catriges).

my 2 cents
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Last edited by Dynamo; October 8th, 2012 at 23:27..
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Old October 8th, 2012, 19:52   #20
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Gas Operated Support weapon. 4 words. thats really all thats on my mind.

if we got a gas operated m249, gas in mag would be awesome.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 11:11   #21
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Maybe not start out with something so complex and tweaky
You could build parts to fix problems on current/popular rifles
Like building M14 style hop chambers for M4s
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Old October 9th, 2012, 12:54   #22
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Ok...I have often found that if I reduce the complexity of the challenge and break it into bite size chunks, the process goes a little smoother. With that in mind, lets pretend that we are starting with an M4/M16 variant. To further reduce the complexity, lets focus on the front end...everything forward of the upper receiver.

What characteristics are most desirable of the front end? i.e., floating/non-floating outer barrel, weight, rigidity, materials, accessory mounting, etc...

discuss...
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Old October 9th, 2012, 13:53   #23
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Superlight handguards and rail systems are hot right now.

I prefer the solid feel of the bolt up style vs the more wobbly delta ring install.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 14:04   #24
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How about cheaper alternatives to existing RA-Tech steel parts? I really don't feel like paying $100+ to import the parts from Asia to find that there might be workmanship problems.

Last edited by Gotrice23; October 9th, 2012 at 14:43..
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Old October 9th, 2012, 14:11   #25
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I would say the most important par for any gun, not just the M4 would be to stick with the real steel, i.e. adapt everything from the trigger system (which on AR15 types is laughably simple) the barrel assembly.

On the front end part I would use a standard delta ring and handguard of a M4A1 to keep it as simple as possible, if you respect the normal dimensions (I'd take Madbull as a reference or a simply a real steel so I can put my stuff on it) of a the gun then people will be able to switch parts.
Also including a hop up system like WA. As painful as it may be to tweak it I like to have as much compatibility as can be.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 14:48   #26
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An idea: FCC or Fight Club Custom is a company from Hong Kong that started out by making upgrades for PTW's, and now they're at the point where they can make an entire gun out of their upgrade parts.
Following their model wouldn't be a bad idea. Start off by making improvements and upgrades for already existing gas rifles, then eventually take what your innovations and throw them all into one gun.
Note that I don't mean simply reinforced parts...
Start with STANAG mags for the KJW platform.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 21:46   #27
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Originally Posted by Gotrice23 View Post
How about cheaper alternatives to existing RA-Tech steel parts? I really don't feel like paying $100+ to import the parts from Asia to find that there might be workmanship problems.
I was going to say something similar to this.

However, take a look at this: http://www.gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8091

Read through it, and maybe go on the same path he is?

If you do, I would definitely pay for a complete steel internal set for a WE GBBR
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Old October 9th, 2012, 22:27   #28
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i have been following that thread from the start. he hasn't done any changes to the original design, he's just making copies of the parts out of better materials.
it's nothing more than a band-aid solution, and a more expensive one at that. nothing has been done to fix the issue with the side lock plate that holds the bolt in the carrier. though it may take longer to happen, the possibility of either the side lock plate, carrier or the back of the bolt braking is still there.
there is also to problem of the bolt wobbling around and hitting the gas port on the front edge of the bolt catch, when the carrier is all the way to the rear and the bolt is extracted from the barrel extension. thats why i only use plastic bolts in my gun. a metal bolt gets nicks on the gas port from striking the bolt catch, and then the rubber seal on the mag gets chewed up.

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Originally Posted by Chris26 View Post
I was going to say something similar to this.

However, take a look at this: http://www.gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8091

Read through it, and maybe go on the same path he is?

If you do, I would definitely pay for a complete steel internal set for a WE GBBR
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Old October 9th, 2012, 23:01   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cifyra View Post
Keep in mind, electric recoil rifles are getting better each day. Although they still have a long way to go, they are certainly catching up. Take a fully upgraded Tokyo Marui So com/Sopmod/Scar for example. The few things they don't have over the gbbrs includes the fact that 2 bb's still drop free after each mag change,
Nope.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 14:01   #30
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Durability: we'd like to see a gas system that offers the realism of heavily actuating parts that doesn't beat up on itself ...high grade steel and extremely high grade polymers would be a good start ...maybe carbon fibre?

Air seal and hop-up: the two most important factors in BB trajectory. Allow for a large and extremely aggressive bucking system that easy to work on. Also a perfectly fit together parts and simple system that capitalizes on excellent air seal. Avoid AEG or old hop designs. Check out Systema's for a few ideas.

FPS valve: a no brainer would be an FPS control valve, so one doesn't need to be installed aftermarket.

Robust internal system: look towards the Systema PTW. Everything clicks together "perfectly". Moving bolt, hop-up system, etc.

Magazines: must have a clever seal system, and be reliable. Make them easy to clean, rebuild, etc; and not to wear out easily.

Gas system: make sure the gas system can handle everything from CO2, to green gas, and all heat tolerances and variables and still fire flawlessly.

Upgrade ability: a good gun is easy to disassemble, and doesn't contain any cheap or useless parts. It's nice to be able to quickly do a barrel swap or switch out the bucking.

Cost: cost will reflect the build, but I'd rather pay $1000 or more for a ridiculously good build than buying something where the company tried to save money.

Performance: if your going to bother making it durable, dependable, and reliable, them it must shoot outstanding as well.

Bells abd whistles: RA-Tech has made some good upgrades for existing systems, check out some of their ideas. Look into things like perfectly milled stainless steel inner barrels, etc.
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